TheStateOfThings's Profile
Twin bed
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  • “I would ask you to please consider that there is nothing frivolous about this topic.  A lot of hurting people come through this forum, and I would like us to be sensitive to that.”

    This is going to sound like nit picking so huge apologies. I 100% agree that these topics are serious and people are (rightly) sensitive to them. I was saying that my own thoughts and opinions are frivolous. I think a much more accurate word is scatterbrained or all over the place. I am fully aware of how hard it is to deal with myself so all I can ask is that people bare with me as I try to change myself.

    “The word “disturbed” that you used in the title indicated emotion to me.  Don’t worry, I didn’t sense any ill will or contempt from you.  I did sense some defensiveness, probably stemming from emotion, possibly fear, worry, or hurt.  Your later comments suggest that you feel some worry that this could happen to you in the future.  Is that accurate?  Is there something else that you are feeling?”

    To be frank, I am absolutely terrified that I would be accused of this ever. In my mind I will have essentially been using my wife as I used porn in the past. My use of porn took me to some extremely dark places that I would never wish on another human being. I think porn is the perfect training grounds to condition men to use women for sex only, as porn is mainly about the objectification of women. I can see that I was trying to cover up my own insecurities when approaching this topic. If I am going to use my wife for sex, I also feel like I would be missing the point of sex, surely it is not just about getting a release and moving on. Because I would be replacing my hand with a woman and this would be a perverted and crude simplification of a sexual relationship between a husband and wife.

    “Trying to explain why someone else feels the way they do, instead of asking questions, is very dismissing of the other person’s feelings.”

    This statement is a perfect summary of one of my worst character traits. You have correctly assessed that trait showing its teeth in my post unfortunately. The most unfortunate part is that I did not regulate myself to identify this obnoxiousness and deal with it, so everyone else here had to deal with it. For that I am sorry.

    “When we talk directly about our feelings, instead of framing things in terms of theory/opinions/right vs. wrong/etc.  it usually (not always!) makes it easier for people to respond to us positively.”

    So you are saying that me not coming out and saying, “this disturbs me,” may have put you on edge? Or made you feel uncomfortable? Or are you just talking about the context of interpersonal relationship not this conversation? I am not trying to accuse you of being on edge, I am just wondering if my framing made you feel uncomfortable in any way.

    On that note, I am going to (probably) unwisely try to restate my theory (stubbornness is also another one of my character flaws). The idea is that people’s feelings are related to their actions and words. Not entirely related, but actions and words may serve some purpose in directing how we feel about something. Allow me to use an example. Let’s say the man feel’s like he is being used to get knitting tools off the top shelf for the wife (I know this is a mundane simplification of the fantastically complex issues couples face but please bare with me). Every time the wife needs something from the top shelf, he feels like he has to be superman and get it for her. Instead of telling her to get it herself though, he decides to try and anticipate when she needs something from the top shelf. Anytime he sees she is about to start knitting he starts gathering her tools. Through this, he realizes that all of the tools she uses for knitting are located on the top shelf. Instead of sitting and waiting for her to ask him to get these things from the top shelf, he decides to build a new shelf that is easier to access. Now he becomes concerned with the quality of her tools that she has been using to knit. She finds the experience to be unfulfilling because the husband is seemingly bored and uninterested with knitting. Now the husband wants to know about the processes involved in knitting and decides to get her better material and tools so she can carry out her task. He starts researching technique and asks her to teach him how to knit, and imagine her surprise when he shows genuine enthusiasm in learning this skill. She takes a great deal of joy in sharing this activity with him and teaching him, and he learns and creates technique all on his own as well and the wife is able to learn from him too.

    The man could have continued to get the tools from the top shelf in this instance and continued to feel used, but he chose to involve himself with his wife’s hobby. He gradually became more and more interested to the point he is involved in the activity, not being used for a specific part of the activity. What am I trying to say? I am trying to say that a spouses involvement in the other’s interests and desires could abate negative feelings about said interests and desires. I am skeptical that this concept could be applied to marital physical intimacy in any way now though. This idea of involvement does not sound egregious or malicious on the surface. I do not really see anything that could result in bad here either. I think if we boiled down what I was trying to say even more though, I am saying that if one person is feeling used that this person can put more effort into the issue at question. That last statement does not sound so great nor does it sound like a plausible way to address issues even to my own ears, so maybe the entire matter needs to be forgotten, I am unsure.

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  • I see that I should be more clear on the frivolity of my thoughts and theories. I am not going to lie, I feel cowed, but this is rightly so. Please consider that my explaining of an idea or issue is my understanding of the topic at hand. I explain in order that disagreement will come and discussion will ensue. Discussion is the way that I have learned most everything in my life, and I have found it to be a fun and enjoyable form of learning.

    Maybe my reaction was intense, and maybe it sounded emotional, but I want to reassure you that I feel no ill will or contempt with any words that have been said. I will be the first one to say that I am young and inexperienced, that does not make me afraid to state my opinion however. I do not state my opinion or thoughts for the sake that it is not changed however. This is my current opinion, it does not make it a right one.

    On that note, I have to agree with you when you say that love is multi-dimensional. However, I am approaching the subject from a position of choice because I seem to be capable of choosing passion and who receives it, which is why no woman on this earth has received my own passion. I am not saying that women are capable or incapable, nor am I saying that that is a bad thing, or that I hold it against women for not being able to force themselves to give passion. I am merely trying to approach the issue of falling in love from an ultimatum standpoint, which is probably not the best approach, as you have highlighted.

    What I am trying to address is how this makes the man feel, or at least, how I would feel if I was accused of such a thing. This is why I laid out the relation between using and rape, noticing the similarities. In my own mind, I could construe that the woman is essentially accusing me of rape, which would be a surefire way to make me not want to approach her for sex in any capacity. Along my reasoning chain, the next conclusion I would probably come too is that I need to pursue sex anyways because it is good for marriage, but I also have a serious problem with the fact that she feels this way, and I need to do everything in my power to address it.

    I was not saying that the man is a rapist, I was saying that saying he is using his wife sounds to me like it is an accusation of rape. This shocked me obviously. I do not want to be accused of this.

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  • @ShadowSpirit

    The reason I am saying to separate from one’s emotions is for the sake of considering one’s emotions. I think that emotional introspection from an emotional state is a dangerous game. Considering one’s anger from a state of anger may not be the most successful way to identify the cause of anger.

    “It would be much more common that the reverse is true.  The lack of involvement stems from the feelings of being used.  The feeling often comes from a husband’s lack of interest in his wife outside the realm of sex.  If a husband only shows interest in his wife when he is seeking sex, a wife will often feel used.   If a woman does not feel lovingly connected before sex, that also may lead to feeling used.”

    It is an interesting world that we live in where a spouse needs to seek out sex from the person that has sexual stewardship over them. I think the husband’s lack of interest in his wife is a separate issue. They seem highly intertwined, but allow me to explain. The husband or the wife’s involvement with each other should not rob them from showing love and affection both sexually, and non-sexually. In other words, the relationship should be approached from what I believe to be, a Jesus attitude. That is, nothing should stand in the way of either party actively seeking out an expression of love. The showing of love and affection should take priority over the focus on issues, hugs now, issues later so to speak. It seems very counterproductive, but in fact I think it is the kind of obedience to each other that God asks us to give to Him. I theorize that this kind of dedication would result in a man thoroughly enamored with his wife, and vice versa. The only reason I would “push” a future spouse away is because I understand that my feelings, when I have tried to explain them to people, are a largely boring and unimportant issue, as perceived by others. Unless the “push” you are speaking of is the husband denying communication with the wife. In that case, I think I would not want to listen to her if I was sure that she did not want to listen to me, but then I would have to struggle with the fact that I would be enabling a vicious cycle. I would have to separate from my own emotions and focus on hers, despite the fact I had determined she did not care about my own emotions. This, in large part, is how men deal with rejection I think. It is a cold disconnect. Men experience lots of rejection, but that is probably because they demand much.

    This is why I say throw feelings out the window. In the context of my paragraph, I think you made an unfair assessment of that statement as well. You have automatically assumed that I am saying one spouse should throw out the other’s feelings, when in fact I am saying that a spouse should look inward and throw out any feelings that prevent them from being the spouse that they are called to be by God’s word. Whether it is an accusation or not is irrelevant. The consideration of how it is going to be received needs to be addressed. It may be received as an accusation, or as constructive criticism, I use the word accusation because that is what it sounds like to me every time I have heard it. I will say this, if one has to practice this kind of tip toeing of communication around the spouse, there may be something amiss. Not that you should be blunt and mean, but that things that come from the heart are openly discussed.

    @Penny

    I am unsure what the purpose of your statement is. I am going to shoot in the dark with this answer so I hope I do not hit anything vital. Are you saying that because I have no relational experiences I cannot diagnose a statement that is made in a relationship? This is a valid concern. It is not something I am concerned with as my goal is to learn as much as I can before I get married. I am also not diagnosing any specific relationship, but a statement I find to be odd that is made by wives for the most part.

    I also am confused as to why so many people enter into marriage with a lack of knowledge of what love is. I am starting to understand that our definition of love is defined by the world. I have heard from Holywood and people around me my entire life the term “falling in love.” I believe this term is a serious misunderstanding of love. A better definition of love that I am using to approach more and more topics is that love is a choice. A choice that needs to be continually acted upon and built on to construct a growing love for one another. When I look at marital issues from the perspective that people think they fall in love, everything makes a whole lot more sense. Of course nothing is working, because the foundation is built on an idea that everything should just work by no effort of either person. The opposite is true to experience love I think. You must be intentional, dedicated, and protective of the spouse’s honor. The idea that sex is a celebration makes much more sense from this principle.

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  • It is kinda funny to read y’alls thoughts on this. No nut November is mostly a meme on the internet. Like most memes, the societal impact is negligible. I think it is also ironic and hilarious that I am explaining this because trying to explain memes is also a meme.

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  • I’m not married, but I am the 20 year old son of a couple that is and I feel I can offer a different perspective on this question that will actually contribute. I am one of 7 children and until I forced the subject with my father recently (2-3 weeks ago), I had not talked to them at all about sex. I just automatically assumed that they shower together because they spend so much time in the bathroom together with the shower running that, that is what I thought was going on. From my perspective as a kid, I never really thought about my parents having sex, but they do pretty much everything else together and now that I think about it, I cant see how it wouldn’t lead to that. I don’t know that they have tried to keep it a secret but if they have they did a terrible job of it because I am fairly certain they were in the shower together a few times laughing and talking on sunday morning before they were getting ready for church. Also, as a kid I may have not been that perceptive, but you can be sure I was watching my parents like a laser, I’m sure everyone already knows but that’s what kids do. I think since I never got talked to about it from my parents, I probably assumed they were just hugging and kissing each other because that’s what I saw them do around me so that’s what they always do, and I guess my kid brain assumed that that was fun which would account for the laughing and all. So, if you are worried about your kids figuring out about your showering together and having sex, to be honest, they probably have figured it out, or they just assume you are loving each other which to a kid can mean a lot of different things, to me, it meant hugging and kissing. Not telling them in my mind is just allowing them to have the opportunity for negative assumptions about it. Not that a kid is going to have negative assumptions about it automatically, I didn’t but I still wonder about other things they have kept secret on.

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  • Twin bed Asked on May 2, 2019 in Pornography .

      @SeekingChange,
      Allow me to clarify on this hatred that I mentioned. Currently, I am more annoyed than hateful towards women. I mentioned this when I said, “I have come to terms with this.” It is a little hard to see because I put a giant note in parentheses in between where I said I hate women and that I have come to terms with it. Within the note I say that I have not really gotten over this. This is because I see that women, as a general rule, want Male attention. I find the method they use to get that attention to be lazy and self destructive. However, I do not hate women anymore. Though I am probably hyper judgmental when it comes to women, but I definitely do not hate them. Obviously it is still a problem, but it is a problem that has shrunk over the years, and I think if I interact with real women more it will probably continue to shrink. I hope this clarifies the issue a little bit.
      @Duchess,
      In regard to the growing pains of curiousity the fact that men and women develop very differently needs to be addressed. The most sexual thing I thought as a kid was kissing, and it was not sexual to me at all seen as how i was only five or six years old at the time. I just thought of kissing as a way to tell a girl that you love them. I did not think of it as sexual, it was only later when I was about eight or nine that I decided I should probably not kiss any girls (not that I have ever found myself in the situation to do such a thing anyways). I was not that curious to know much about girl’s bodies, or my own for that matter, right up until I saw that magazine. I realized right then that I could explore a whole new world without anyone finding out. I should not have followed that instinct, but I did. I need to be transparent. It feels like I’ve been doing this so long, and apologizing to God so much, I don’t have much guilt to spare anymore unfortunately. I have been growing more and more spiritually distant. Now I have mainly been getting convinced to stop for the sake of my career and school. My spiritual life is in shambles. I haven’t read the Bible in my own time in a long time. I haven’t prayed in a long time. I only just went to church on Easter Sunday and I have so many frustrations with the church (mainly the fact that they do not talk about real issues such as mine, and I mean talk about them in groups not the preacher on a Sunday morning, I dont expect something that unreasonable, just something).
      I never got a “talk.” I think my parents told me once they meant to tell me about that stuff after I confessed to them about the porn, but I never got that kind of information. I don’t think that information would have helped me much to be honest. Because the knowledge of sex has only ever made me ask more about why women and men behave the way they do (I ask this about women more than men).
      I like to think I have had a practical conviction when it comes to masturbating. I had conviction before, but I began to associate that conviction with lust rather than masturbation. I read the article on the main website way back when about teens and masturbation. This lead me to try to masturbate without lusting. I succeeded in this endeavor and felt really good about it. Now, there are communities of people (non-christian) who speak about quitting porn and masturbation. They say that it clears their heads and allows them to focus easier and accomplish a lot. This is the first forum I have gotten involved with in regard to confessing my porn addiction and seeking a change (no pun intended), but I am questioning whether masturbating was ever right as the article would suggest. I have never had a wet dream. Sure I have had dreams about girls as early as nine I think, but none of them have ever resulted in ejaculation and I am pretty sure I have gone at least three weeks without masturbating before. I have noticed that the amount of dreams I have about women increase in those times (tmi warning), but my erections in the morning seem to decrease. It is a strange combination. Mainly my thinking now is to stop porn, which so far I have been successful in (if you consider a few weeks porn free to be successful).
      I hope that clarified some of the confusion.
      Sincerely,
      TheStateOfThings

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