How do find it in you to not give up trying?

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    I can feel myself growing colder towards my husband, and I don’t know that it’s something that I feel inclined to work at halting. I love him fiercely, and I find him incredibly sexy, but… I just feel done pursuing him. I have struggled so much, and so hard, to not be tempted by other men trying to seduce me. A part of me is angry, so angry that I can’t count on my husband to help me through this, so I’m not constantly burning. 

    It is so tempting to just shut down and to become a refuser myself. I can’t help but protest at being used by him sporadically, however and whenever it eventually pleases him, while he ignores my needs. I do worry that it would tank our relationship though, if I were to erect boundaries around this area of our interaction. He’s my best friend. I don’t want to lose him or leave him. I’m just so tired of trying to fix our intimacy issues. We’ve been broken for 19 years. I’m losing all hope that this can ever be made right between us. I just… want to give up. I don’t know if that is sinful or wrong, but I’m beginning to not care. 

    Queen bed Asked on October 8, 2019 in Sexually Refused .
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      I see, lol 😀 I’m happy to hear you guys have a great friendship though! That makes progress at least attainable. Once good-will between spouses has been lost, a marriage has little hope.

      That’s understandable 🙂 What do you feel is missing from your sexual relationship? If you were given 3 “sex wishes”, what would you do with them? How would you like your sex life to change/improve?

      Queen bed Answered on October 8, 2019.
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        Hmm. Mostly… sex is missing. My husband has a very low drive, and is completely comfortable with brushing me off or ignoring my advances. When he does decide that he wants sex, it’s whatever HE wants. If I protest at all, he’s perfectly fine with withholding sex. It would be great to have a partner who desired me. It’d be super neat if he wanted to touch and kiss me, especially if it were more than the barest minimum to be able to … gain entry. I’d also enjoy it if my orgasm was considered important.

        Queen bed Answered on October 8, 2019.
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          Well, I have a little trouble (and I’m sure you have as well) reconciling him being your best friend, while at the same time not caring about whether you’re happy, and sexually fulfilled. A tree is known by his fruit, actions speak louder than words (Matthew 6:17).

          There are two approaches, and you’ll either be applying to his empathetic motive, or selfish motive.

          Applying to his empathetic motive, would be sitting him down when you both have time to talk, and telling him that you’re unhappy. That his lack of sexual desire for you, and lack of sexual attentiveness (orgasms, wanting to rock your world), hurts you, and is ruining your otherwise fulfilling relationship. You would then ask him to attend counseling with you, and go to a doctor to have his testosterone levels tested. If he protests, tell him that these things are very important to you, that you think a therapist and doctors visit will help address the issues you mentioned, and that it would mean a lot to you if he agreed to go.

          If he agrees, then proceed and see if therapy and the doctors visit reveal anything.

          If he still refuses, then that would put you in a tough position. You’d have to decide whether you’re going to suck it up and live this way for the rest of your life. Or whether you’re going to refuse his selfishness and neglect, and put boundaries in place.

          This option would consist of you thinking it through, and deciding what you are, and are no longer willing to tolerate. As well as things you are no longer going to do for him. Example: “If you aren’t going to have sex with me, then I don’t want you in our bed any more. I moved your stuff to the spare room while you were at work. Have a nice night.”.

          The general idea is that you give him the same medicine he’s feeding you, and thus (hopefully) train him to start abiding by the golden rule.

          You don’t have to begin by kicking him out of the bedroom, but it’s an idea. Not preparing his meals, not washing his clothes, not speaking to him about his favorite whatever… all of those are boundaries you can put in place that communicate “You reap what you sow. If you want an attentive wife who fulfills you, then be an attentive husband who fulfills me”.

          Queen bed Answered on October 8, 2019.
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            I said that he was my best friend, not that he was the best friend that he could be. lol In so many ways, he is generous and kind, giving and thoughtful. When it comes to sex though? Noooo. Not at all.

            When we first started “dating”, I wasn’t a believer, and he was …. nominal. So, it’s understandable that we didn’t really blink an eye over having sex before we were married. During that time, I think that he was so starved for intimacy, he would have done just about anything for some touch. He was completely unskilled, but at least he had desire, and that meant the most to me. It was blissful for me, as I believe that he was concerned about my opinion of him, as a lover. So, he did all of those things that I need, just because he was enjoying me, and wanted to keep my attention.

            After a couple of decades, he’s no longer very concerned about my opinion of him as a lover, nor terribly desirous of my attention. Much of the time, I believe that he is mildly annoyed with me, because he finds my sexual advances to be bothersome. Now, I can be coming onto him hard, touching both of us and inviting him to come and play, and he just gives me a look and rolls over with his back to me. If there’s a sure-fire way to squash my inconvenient desire, that’s certainly it. He’s had his testosterone checked. It was on the lower end of normal. He did at least do that for me, when I firmly “asked’. He refuses therapy, but would at least humble himself enough to tell his doctor that he was concerned about his low drive.

            Frankly, I can handle the reality that he doesn’t want sex as much as I do. I am happy to cuddle him and watch movies, if that is what he wants. We can hold hands while drinking beer and watching the fights. The thing is, it’s not that he really has a low drive.  That man would take oral sex daily, even if he initially didn’t think that he really wanted it, just because he knew that at some point… yeah, he’s going to enjoy himself. He just doesn’t want the inconvenience of having to do a darned thing for me. He’s come right out and told me that he’ll fake being asleep, because he wants to avoid having sex with me, because it didn’t seem “worth the effort”. That’s super flattering.  : /   He’s just selfish and lazy. I know it. He admits it. But then what?

            I have such a hard time being “at war” with him. He thinks that I’m being foolish to “pick a fight” with him over sex, when the other many facets of our relationship are so shiny and going well. I wonder if he’s right, honestly. Is sex worth fighting over? For him, it’s not. He’s said that sex isn’t an emotional thing for him. He’s content with a little spooning, so he can feel relaxed enough to fall asleep a few moments later. That’s all that it honestly seems to be for him. I’ve struggled with whether I even have it in me to fight for something, knowing that any intimacy that I feel as a result of sex with him, is just one-sided. I could draw lines in the sand, put my foot down, and hope that he gets tired of being at odds with me, and bends. I just don’t know that I have it in me. I don’t know what I’m fighting for anymore. I wanted to a deeper one-flesh relationship, and I don’t know that that is a thing that we can have together. I just feel like I’m his good buddy, someone to share household responsibilities with, someone to split a pizza with while watching a movie. The more romantic and intimate aspects of my nature are without value, and undesirable to him. All that really matters is if I’m chill, and can suck the white off of rice. I honestly love hanging with him, and doing all the rest of life. It’s pretty much what I’ve got. The idea of endangering that, for the sake of sex, when I know that his heart isn’t in it? It seems like all I’d really accomplish is stealing from myself the only good thing that I’ve got.

            Queen bed Answered on October 9, 2019.
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              SeekingChange I like your response.

              Yes, as Christians we must surrender all the time. We get saved/born again when we surrender all to the Lord Jesus Christ. When trouble arise, the christian is first to say sorry even if he/she is 100% right. We want to live peaceably with all men.

              In marriage too a Christian surrenders all to his/her spouse.  So in a Christian marriage words like “marital rape” cannot be found in their dictionary or laws. Because we belong to our spouse and our spouse belong to us.

              3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

              The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

              Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 1 Corinthians 7:3-5.

               

              However, sometimes there are problems. When the enemy brings the problem we take it to our Saviour to fix it and He does a perfect job.

              Thank God for Jesus Christ.

              Queen bed Answered on October 9, 2019.

              If a husband is “taking” what’s “his”, and it resembles rape, I believe we can make a very strong biblical case that he is in disobedience to the Word…aka sinning. He would not be loving his wife as Christ loves the church (Eph. 5) and he is not living with his wife in an understanding way, nor treating her as a weaker vessel (1 Pt 3). Those are just the direct things addressed to husbands, we haven’t even began to dig into how we, as believers, ought to behave and live in general.

              on October 9, 2019.

              Did you seriously just advocate rape because someone is married and back it up with the Bible?…Sorry Sir…but thats a shame.

              on October 9, 2019.

              I saw that and thought he probably reads those UNGodly blogs like biblical gender roles. The author goes on and on about that kind of thing. Dangerous thinking and unbiblical.  Thankfully i don’t think most Christian men even think that way and they are good willed. Most certainly, Christ wouldn’t treat His Church that way or set that kind of example

              on October 9, 2019.

              Rape denies free will; the whole point of God creating us as His companions was because He wanted children who chose Him of our own free will; none of His other creatures had that privilege.

              on October 10, 2019.
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                I said that he was my best friend, not that he was the best friend that he could be. lol In so many ways, he is generous and kind, giving and thoughtful. When it comes to sex though? Noooo. Not at all.

                Well, you do see that that statement is kinda an oxymoron? “He’s so nice, except where I really need it”?

                When we first started “dating”, I wasn’t a believer, and he was …. nominal. So, it’s understandable that we didn’t really blink an eye over having sex before we were married. During that time, I think that he was so starved for intimacy, he would have done just about anything for some touch. He was completely unskilled, but at least he had desire, and that meant the most to me. It was blissful for me, as I believe that he was concerned about my opinion of him, as a lover. So, he did all of those things that I need, just because he was enjoying me, and wanted to keep my attention.

                After a couple of decades, he’s no longer very concerned about my opinion of him as a lover, nor terribly desirous of my attention. Much of the time, I believe that he is mildly annoyed with me, because he finds my sexual advances to be bothersome. Now, I can be coming onto him hard, touching both of us and inviting him to come and play, and he just gives me a look and rolls over with his back to me. If there’s a sure-fire way to squash my inconvenient desire, that’s certainly it. He’s had his testosterone checked. It was on the lower end of normal. He did at least do that for me, when I firmly “asked’. He refuses therapy, but would at least humble himself enough to tell his doctor that he was concerned about his low drive.

                That’s precisely what I’m suggesting you recreate. Stop giving him attention. Stop gratifying him emotionally. Stop rewarding him for neglecting you. Starve him for affection and intimacy – so he’ll get hungry.

                Like a frog in a pot on the stove, all of us can sometimes be gradually “lulled” into situations that we would never have been ok with at the beginning. How he treats you sexually is very callous and unloving. Giving you an exasperated look, and rolling over and ignoring you? That’s not ok. That’s not love. It’s cold, uncaring, and cruel.

                The bare minimum a kind husband could do is say “I’m sorry baby, but I don’t think I can tonight. Could we cuddle instead?”. A kind and generous husband, would recognize that you need him, and go for it. Or at least give you a rain check “Can we do it tomorrow?” (and of course follow through). 

                Frankly, I can handle the reality that he doesn’t want sex as much as I do. I am happy to cuddle him and watch movies, if that is what he wants. We can hold hands while drinking beer and watching the fights. The thing is, it’s not that he really has a low drive.  That man would take oral sex daily, even if he initially didn’t think that he really wanted it, just because he knew that at some point… yeah, he’s going to enjoy himself. He just doesn’t want the inconvenience of having to do a darned thing for me. He’s come right out and told me that he’ll fake being asleep, because he wants to avoid having sex with me, because it didn’t seem “worth the effort”. That’s super flattering.  : /   He’s just selfish and lazy. I know it. He admits it. But then what?

                That type lazy sexuality is a classic symptom of porn use. Porn users grow use to just sitting, and not having to put any effort into their sexual gratification, as well as a complete lack of having to gratify a partner. Regardless of what he claims, is it possible he’s currently viewing porn?

                If he refused therapy, and you’d like for him to go, then why not ask him again? Naturally you should start by asking nicely, telling him it’s important to you, and all that I described in my earlier post. If he refuses again, then you could choose something you provide for him that he values, and stopping providing it. “As long as you’re unwilling to go to therapy and address this issue, I’m no longer going to do X”.

                Right now, he faces no consequences for his selfish and unloving behavior. He can ignore your needs, and even be cruel (turning his back to you), and you continue coming back for more. So from his perspective, why should he change his behavior, when you treat him like a king regardless of how he treats you? 

                I have such a hard time being “at war” with him. He thinks that I’m being foolish to “pick a fight” with him over sex, when the other many facets of our relationship are so shiny and going well. I wonder if he’s right, honestly. Is sex worth fighting over? For him, it’s not. He’s said that sex isn’t an emotional thing for him. He’s content with a little spooning, so he can feel relaxed enough to fall asleep a few moments later. That’s all that it honestly seems to be for him. I’ve struggled with whether I even have it in me to fight for something, knowing that any intimacy that I feel as a result of sex with him, is just one-sided. I could draw lines in the sand, put my foot down, and hope that he gets tired of being at odds with me, and bends. I just don’t know that I have it in me. I don’t know what I’m fighting for anymore. I wanted to a deeper one-flesh relationship, and I don’t know that that is a thing that we can have together. I just feel like I’m his good buddy, someone to share household responsibilities with, someone to split a pizza with while watching a movie. The more romantic and intimate aspects of my nature are without value, and undesirable to him. All that really matters is if I’m chill, and can suck the white off of rice. I honestly love hanging with him, and doing all the rest of life. It’s pretty much what I’ve got. The idea of endangering that, for the sake of sex, when I know that his heart isn’t in it? It seems like all I’d really accomplish is stealing from myself the only good thing that I’ve got.

                Don’t let what he thinks of your emotional needs effect their importance to you. He doesn’t have the right to tell you that your desire for sexual fulfillment is foolish. That’s like telling someone that their interest in art is foolish. Or telling someone who’s hungry that they shouldn’t be.

                What you need to decide, is whether you think sex is worth fighting for. Are you willing to be neglected and ignored in the bedroom for the rest of your life, in exchange for your husband’s friendship?

                I totally get that you’re afraid of losing what you have. I was in a similar situation some years ago. I was with a girl who was pretty amazing. But she occasionally mistreated me in very emotionally distressing ways. I did what you’re currently doing, I forgave her, and kept treating her like I always had – like a queen. But as time went on, she kept doing it, I kept forgiving her. It got to the point where it had become commonplace. I had taught her with my actions, by continuously accepting her neglect, that it was ok. That I was going to be there, no matter how she treated me.

                I did it because I didn’t want to lose her, I loved her. Internally, I was hoping, or expecting, that things would eventually change. That my kindness and love towards her would eventually inspire her to treat me better, and would work out the occasional issues. But that never happened.

                It eventually reached a point where I couldn’t take it any longer. I had been complaining, but tolerating it, for years, and I simply hit my limit. When confronted, she wasn’t willing to change, and left.

                I wasted years of my life waiting, and putting up with it, when what I should have done is confront her, and require that things change. Because I wasn’t ok with it, and never would be. But fear of losing her kept me there, in a (sometimes) unhappy relationship, that I ended up losing anyway.

                So, what I invite you to consider, is that if nothing ever changes, if he continues to treat you just like he is right now, will you be happy? If the answer is no, then you owe it to yourself to confront him, establish boundaries, and fight.

                Queen bed Answered on October 9, 2019.

                He has been a heavy porn user. It’s gotten better recently, though better is terribly subjective. It has been so bad that at times, he only wanted to have sex with me while watching porn. That birthed our last big argument, because I refused to have sex with him, and told him that I wanted it off of the tv.

                on October 9, 2019.

                What does better mean? Once a day? Once a week? Once a month?

                He’s manifesting all the symptoms of porn addiction. What efforts have been made on his part to stop looking at porn?

                Does he not want to give it up? Does he want to, but just doesn’t seem to be able to? Or does he say he wants to, but doesn’t put any effort into actually quitting?

                on October 10, 2019.
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                  Re: to BioTwins reply

                  “That’s precisely what I’m suggesting you recreate. Stop giving him attention. Stop gratifying him emotionally. Stop rewarding him for neglecting you. Starve him for affection and intimacy – so he’ll get hungry. “

                  Here’s the problem I have with this, where do we see this method supported in the new Testament? This sounds more like manipulation, fully rooted in the flesh. Not love, not even tough love.

                  I am all for boundaries. Boundaries removes you from being manipulated and negative situations, and you are in control of yourself and how you react, but to do as suggested, where you are trying to control another’s behavior in such a manner, is unhealthy and is not healthy boundaries.

                  Under the stars Answered on October 9, 2019.
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                    @Seeking Change

                    • Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
                    • Matthew 18:15  Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
                    • John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
                    • Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
                    • 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
                    • 2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
                    • Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
                    • Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

                    The message in all of these, is that to remain in Christ, one must tow the line. You have to live up to a certain standard. If you do not, negative sanctions are put in place. We are not bound to ignore our brothers failings, or mistreatment of us.

                    Queen bed Answered on October 9, 2019.

                    I don’t see how any of these support manipulation. Or for a wife to be disobedient herself to her Biblical mandates and show disrespect.  I see consequences to certain behaviors, which falls under boundaries.  Maybe our issue is semantics, and tweaking of some wording and attitude could put us on the same page?

                    I also disagree with your interpretation of them, but that isn’t what this is about, so I won’t go any further with that.  🙂

                    on October 9, 2019.

                    Wikipedia: “Manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the behavior or perception of others through indirect, deceptive, or underhanded tactics. By advancing the interests of the manipulator, often at another’s expense, such methods could be considered exploitative and devious.”

                    In my opinion, wren following the path I outlined would not be indirect, deceptive, or underhanded. She would clearly be stating that she is not going to tolerate his neglect any longer. And that for as long as he wishes to continue mistreating her, negative sanctions will be put in place.

                    All she desires is a mutually fulfilling relationship with her husband. She’d like the same love, desire, and consideration which she directs at him, to likewise be directed at her. Her husband is the one who is seeking to exploit her for his own gain. He wants the benefits of an accommodating and attentive wife, without being an accommodating and attentive husband.

                    on October 9, 2019.
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                      I edited my second to last post to be a little smoother 😀

                      Queen bed Answered on October 9, 2019.
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                        @Wren

                        What does better mean? Once a day? Once a week? Once a month?

                        He’s manifesting all the symptoms of porn addiction. What efforts have been made on his part to stop looking at porn?

                        Does he not want to give it up? Does he want to, but just doesn’t seem to be able to? Or does he say he wants to, but doesn’t put any effort into actually quitting?

                        Queen bed Answered on October 9, 2019.

                        As far as I am aware, it’s been about 3 weeks since he’s fallen down that rabbit hole. He was doing fairly well at avoiding it for a few weeks before that, but I suspect that his Chive app puts too much skin in his viewing, so regardless of what articles he thinks are funny, he’s getting big doses of semi-clothed women. That’s too much for him, when he’s having a weak moment. Anyway, he’s trying, and of his own volition. I think that it frustrates him that I want to have sex with him, and he feels pressure to perform. There’s only the pressure there because he sees to be struggling to find me arousing. I don’t do it for him, the same way that porn does. It’s not for lack of trying, but I don’t look like those girls, and no amount of lingerie is going to fill in the gap for him. So, he feels the weight of my desire, and can’t manage to want me back… and he feels bad.

                        on October 11, 2019.

                        I did a fair bit of research into porn addiction some time back, and the porn recovery community says it takes 60-90 days (depending on the severity of his addiction) to sexually “rewire”. No porn, masturbation, and no handjobs from you, for 60-90 days (no porn indefinitely, goes without saying) – sex only.

                        Essentially, our brains have neuro pathways that get deeper and deeper, the more a behavior is repeated. The goal here is to starve out the porn and masturbation neuro pathways, and replace them with healthy ones. During this time, you need to be his guide by helping him establish new sexual habits that leave you satisfied and fulfilled. No selfish “just for him”, or “wam bam thank you ma’am” porn-type sex, unless that is what you, Wren, want to do.

                        As for preventing him from looking at porn: I recommend Covenant Eyes. It’s unique in that it not only allows you to block pornographic material, but it also monitors for circumnavigation attempts. So if he even tries to bypass the filter, or find not as risque material not blocked by the filter, it will send you (Wren) a notification. This is super helpful, because he’ll know the moment he even tries to look at something, it’s going to let you know. And that will motivate him to not do so, cause he won’t get away with it.

                        What I don’t think he has realized, is that he’s an addict. He has lost his ability to function sexually without pornography, and that should scare him. If this were alcohol, it would not be a good idea to leave him in a bar, hoping that his self control holds out. Which is what leaving him with the ability to access porn would be comparable to.

                        So summing up, he needs to realize that he has an addiction. This is not a “so I like a little porn, so what” – he’s an addict. You guys need to talk, and get him to agree on installing Covenant Eyes on all your devices. As well as him not masturbating, for the next 60-90 days.

                        Make it clear to him that you will be available for sex, whenever he needs it. And only engage in sexual activities you (Wren) find fulfilling. This is your opportunity to create a better sex life together, so guide him. If you want an orgasm, then guide him in giving you one. Don’t accept excuses. Don’t allow your sex life to go back down his selfish path. If he doesn’t put in the effort to satisfy you, then don’t satisfy him. If you don’t get to orgasm, he doesn’t get to orgasm.

                        Get him the book “She Comes First”, and when you guys have sex, have him satisfy you. After you’ve been fulfilled, then do the same for him. It’s a reward system, which solidifies the neuro pathways you’re creating. If he pleases you, he also gets pleased. If he doesn’t, neither does he.

                        Does that plan sound realistic for you guys?

                        I’ve also linked two sites below that can give you actual research and articles regarding this addiction, and how to recover. Both so you can know more about it, but also so you can present them to your husband if he has difficulty abiding by the plan. Both are secular though, not faith-based.

                        https://fightthenewdrug.org/

                        https://nofap.com/

                        on October 11, 2019.
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