Husbands, do you agree with Dennis Prager?

    Putting aside the instinctive usual responses (i know my wife loves me because she’s good to me, puts me first, does things for me, speaks my love language, etc.)

    DO YOU FUNDAMENTALLY FIRST AND FOREMOST AGREE with his following sentence:

    A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him.

    Here is the article following: (When a woman isn’t in the mood) and if you agree with the following article (there’s also a part II) feel free to discuss

    https://www.dennisprager.com/column/when-a-woman-isnt-in-the-mood-part-i/

    The question is too short and compartmentalized. If a woman is not in the mood, her response should be to try and find out why. (hormones, past trauma, etc) If a man provides and the wife is lucky enough to stay at home and does not need a job AND he is a great and faithful husband, AND makes a good living ANDis a super nice guy…why not accommodate him?

    My wife married poorly. I lost my career in 1991, moved on to a lowly sales job, then after 18 years I was fired in 2009 and our finances took a dive, I got moody, angry and depressed from all my repeated failures to get a decent job , so any lack of sexual desire in my wife was not surprising. I deserved nothing. I did try to be a good provider but my failures are legendary. So, I would like to agree with Prager, but I really deserve nothing from her. Any sexuality from my wife is an undeserved free gift.

    on July 15, 2020.
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    14 Answer(s)

      I suppose that it is possible for a husband and wife to have love languages such that sexual willingness could be the primary act of true love. It is irresponsible of anyone to teach that, in such an all encompassing way, though, IMHO.

      Fell out of ... Answered on July 14, 2020.
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        The articles are 11.5 years old, so the second part is indeed out:

        https://www.dennisprager.com/column/when-a-woman-isnt-in-the-mood-part-ii/

        -Scott

        Under the stars Answered on July 15, 2020.

        That’s a good one too. So many problems, apathy, hurt and indifference created out of this. Of course, his last paragraph on the 2nd article is again a great wrap-up and qualifier.

        on July 15, 2020.

        Thank you Scott for doing my work! 🙂

        on July 16, 2020.
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          Part 1 and Part 2 are really good and have a lot of truth in it.

          Under the stars Answered on July 15, 2020.
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            @LBD, I really like your thoughts! I do have a serious question though…. is a husband willing to accept his wife’s willingness and effort to show up, even when she’snot in the mood?

            One of my biggest frustrations is being a wife who has very much had this heart, and yet hearing husband after husband (but to be very clear, NOT my husband) say “it’s not enough”, or basically, “I would rather have nothing than the measly gift of her presence and willingness.” Instead the message is, IF she can’t be “in the mood” (aka enthusiastic, spontaneous, a desire like a man’s), then it’s not enough to please the husband. Isn’t this speaking out of both sides of the mouth?

            Under the stars Answered on July 15, 2020.

            See my fuller comment below. – but yes, having a willingness to seek understanding and to accept a gift graciously will be an important step in the process. But, if mediocrity is all that is expected, mediocrity is all that will be supplied. Are we supposed to satisfied with “participation trophies?”

            on July 15, 2020.

            And who gets to determine whether a wife’s effort is mediocre or her all, or somewhere in between? The husband?

            on July 15, 2020.

            Wow SC you stated what i commented above!

            I don’t care much for Dennis Prager even though i agree with most of what he’s saying but he’s coming from a man’s POV (which we wives should heed, of course) but he himself did say that men need to reconcile that their wives will never truly meet their sexual needs.

            on July 15, 2020.

            @LBD women are NOT MEN and NEVER WILL BE. Yes i’m stating the obvious.  But it needs to be said, apparently. I totally get the duty sex…i hate it too that sometimes i give it or that sometimes my husband gives it!!  But i cannot expect my husband to act like a woman or vice-versa. I don’t really know what the answer is, maybe that’s the answer for both sexes is to realize we never will truly be satisfied.

            on July 15, 2020.

            I sure hope my wife doesn’t act like a man – I don’t want to have sex with a man.

            Who gets to decide If your husband’s efforts to serve/love/support/protect you are sufficient, mediocre, outstanding? You? Or does he get to proclaim “that’s all you get?”

            on July 15, 2020.

            In our marriage, we communicate about both of these areas. The feelings spur us to converse, but the feelings don’t determine the judgment call. When we talk, if the other says they are doing all they can, whether it’s loving or leading, or sexually, then we choose to believe them and live with grace.

            on July 15, 2020.

            When my wife told me I was not  giving her enough grace or enough positive reinforcement, I apologized and said “I will change that, I will do more of what you need.”   Should she have expected that? Or should she have had to accept “I’m sorry honey, that’s just the way I am, you’ll have to live with it?”

            on July 16, 2020.

            You came to your own decision you could do more…. so it was YOU who decide you were acting in mediocrity, and you haven’t been giving to the best of your ability.

            on July 16, 2020.

            LOL – Keep trying….

            thought I was doing just fine, until we had several conversations where she convinced me, or I finally agreed, that I needed to up that part of my game. And, as day follows night, as I have done so, good things have followed. 

            It was her choice to let me know her feelings. It was my choice to act out of deference to her desires/needs – but only after  I was made aware of her perspective. 

            But it didn’t just go one way. As I have consistently indicated what my desires/needs are, she has begun to do more to meet them. It can and should go both ways – always. 

            on July 16, 2020.
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              @SC asks:

              “Is a husband willing to accept his wife’s willingness and effort to show up, even when she’s not in the mood?”

              and

              “Instead the message is, IF she can’t be “in the mood” (aka enthusiastic, spontaneous, a desire like a man’s), then it’s not enough to please the husband. Isn’t this speaking out of both sides of the mouth?”

              Excellent questions, and not easy to answer because it’s not always a black and white situation. First, I will openly admit that enthusiasm is what I want to see from my wife in the MB. My answer to the 07/01 QOTD stated that, I definitely touched on it in MQ’s novelty/variety thread, and (perhaps most importantly) I was one of the husbands that answered “option 2” in SOA’s Option 1/Option 2 thread. I absolutely want to see it, and I completely understand men that would rather be sexless or just masturbate than have sex with a starfish or “bored” wife during “duty sex”.

              So, yes, I’m willing to accept my wife in “willing” mode. TMI, but I actually did that at 4:15 this morning (I woke up craving it and we knew she’d almost certainly start menstruating today). However, there is a difference in her just being “willing” every time vs. occasionally. In some ways, being “willing” when not in the mood on occasion is more loving because it means our wives are stretching themselves to accept us (I know, the pun, har har). However, when that’s all he gets, the husband will eventually feel unloved, more just “put up with” than anything. He may feel like a paycheck, life insurance, sperm bank, nanny, handyman, etc.

              I think an understanding of responsive desire can help this a lot, and for both partners. However, husbands still need to be wary to not assume their wife’s arousal will look anything like theirs. We’ve found ways to get Zelda high aroused, and her reactions and desires/behaviors while aroused still don’t look like mine. I’ve accepted that and instead look for other things. These include her willingness to use the vibe every session, her making sexual innuendos/references throughout the day, and (perhaps best) her going toy shopping online with me. I feel really blessed by those kinds of things, and over time I’m learning that what I view as “willing” is much more than that and certainly more than she’d give anyone else…yes, even Captain America.

              -Scott

              Under the stars Answered on July 15, 2020.

              Good thoughts! Thanks for sharing. Life, individuals, marriage, sex…they are all complex in and of themselves, and then when you blend them, it’s even more so.

              on July 15, 2020.
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                I agree with the article.

                A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him.

                Each time DW allows me access to her body, (play with her nude body, view it, explore her parts etc) I tell myself that she loves me.  And when she engages in sex with me then I’ll say she loves me more. When she refuses me access to her body and sex, it makes me feel bad, rejected and unloved. I wish that never happens. When I refuse her sex , she gets angry too. I have learnt to always say yes to her sexual desires.

                If DW is not in the mood, I wish she will tell me in a loving way and try to make up pretty soon she is good with it.

                I believe if wives and women would apply what is written in the article their marriages will be blissful. An elderly married woman  once said that there is no marital issue that cannot be solved on the marriage bed.

                The article has its bases from the bible and especially its in agreement with 1 Corinthians 7:3-5.

                King bed Answered on July 15, 2020.
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                  I agree that it can mean that. Most of us DHs feel our DW loves us when she freely gives herself to us. Withholding it usually says something very strong as well. So, it can be one of the ways. But there are many other ways too.

                  I realize he is talking about husband and wife.

                  However, it may be good to test the notion in a different way. For instance, I’m not willing to accept that every female (woman or DW) who is willing to give her body to a man (premarital or extramarital), really loves the man. Nor does he her! There are a lot more factors that come into play.  Like, “She gave her body to me must mean she loves me” is dangerous logic, isn’t it? Would a girl necessary conclude or correctly surmise that because a guy listened to her talk for 30 minutes, he must definitely love her?

                  In marriage, it is likely to be more true, but not always.

                  Under the stars Answered on July 15, 2020.
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                    Prager is Jewish, so he doesn’t reference the  NT writings that apply – but I think they should be obvious, and are right in line with his thoughts IMO. I was thinking about part 2 and the analogy struck me – what if we only went to worship when we were “in the mood”, or “had that fire to worship?” Don’t get me wrong – and don’t go claiming you ALWAYS are on fire to worship. I know and have talked to too many old preachers that will admit even they have waxing and waning periods. The point is this – even when we may not feel the closest to God or our minds are not into worship, if we go and participate, don’t we almost always come away being glad we came? Don’t we almost always come away with more than we brought?    Once you get there, and get involved, and start giving to God, that is when edification, and spiritual growth really starts. You feel better for having gone. Doesn’t that sound a little like responsive desire? But even if desire does not materialize, don’t you have the opportunity to come away being glad you were there?

                    Pushing through and engaging in sex when you are not really in the mood can be the same I believe. I have heard as much here. Prager’s reason 8 in part 2 speaks a little to this, but I think he could have emphasized it a little more and still been on target.

                    On the floor Answered on July 15, 2020.

                    But still..then you go back to husbands being constantly unhappy with what their wives bring to the table.

                    “The way i feel loved as a man is for my wife to make available her body to me at all times” (barring of course illness, etc.) so the wife IS NOT going to be in the mood all of the time..or maybe even half of the time given the difference between men and women..and probably not ever with the way and variety the husband likes it because after all, she is a woman and created differently…so she maybe even half the time is graciously accommodating and still the husband isn’t happy because she isn’t “on fire” all the time as you pointed out in another post, that would lead eventually to the same conclusion as the man feeling unloved…thus women’s lament that they never feel they are enough.  I think this needs to be heard by the husband.

                    Even Dennis Prager concluded: At the same time, men need to recognize that complete sexual fulfillment is unattainable in this world

                    Actually that’s a pretty sad commentary on men and the way they think (he really tries to hit home how much men are giving up in this world (ie a variety of women) when they marry.  Yeah no wonder they’re not going to ever be really content but if that’s the way men truly are…then yes they need to take that advice to heart.

                    on July 15, 2020.

                    So…is your glass always half empty? 🙂

                    What would you propose – least common denominator? Always round down?
                    Why not work on the other end of the equation? Or both ends?

                    on July 15, 2020.

                    My proposal? What Dennis Prager said…don’t go on your emotions all the time to decide if you should have sex, be generous.

                    BUT…don’t expect to have your every sexual desire fulfilled, especially if you’re a man…that simple.  If your wife willingly gives herself to you and it’s not fireworks most of the time or even half of the time, then graciously accept it.  Your wife knows deep down inside that even if you are glad of heart that she rightfully accommodates, that she really isn’t enough… how do you think that feels?

                    on July 15, 2020.

                    There are two sides of that same equation. Yes a husband can be edifying or destructive in his handling of such situations. He can be selfish and insensitive, or choose to be gracious and up-lifting.

                    However, we would likely all agree that a large portion of self-esteem is built, and torn down, from within oneself. To only look outward for your validation is problematic. So yes, it is problematic for a husband to depend on his wife and her sexual responsiveness to be his sole source of validation. But it is also problematic for the wife to look solely to her husband for hers. If she feels she is not enough, there is work do be done on both sides of that equation.

                    If a wife “knows deep down inside that even if you are glad of heart that she rightfully accommodates“  – so that would seem to indicate that there has been successful sharing of gratitude, is DW knows DH is glad. If that is not the case, then any loving husband should be willing to say “I can do more! I can be more gracious, I can be more thankful, I can be more edifying.” In fact, I think that is what you would expect, is it not?

                    Why not be willing to say the same thing in regards to sex? “I can do more! I can be more cognizant of his desires, I can be more enthusiastic, I can be more positively responsive.”
                    Or does the shoe not fit?  Prager simply illustrates that thought follows action. Therefore, good  emotions follow good actions. Act your way into a feeling, not feel your way into an action. Even a little “fake it until you make it” can be a positive action.

                    With a bunch of “atta’ girl’s!” along the way 🙂

                     

                    on July 16, 2020.
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                      ”However, when that’s all he gets, the husband will eventually feel unloved, more just “put up with” than anything. He may feel like a paycheck, life insurance, sperm bank, nanny, handyman, etc.”

                      ^^^ that is the key.  Yes, a balanced approach is important. Yes, a husband should be understanding and learn to accept that a gift graciously received is graciously given more often. But a steady diet of unenthusiastic, duty sex, etc, is demoralizing. Seldom to ever getting a gracious accepting response to a sexual approach is, as Prager suggested, emasculating. Is the husband supposed to always accept whatever it is she offers?  Or in this case, doesn’t offer? Of course not. Feeling put up with is perhaps the best description yet. I have felt tolerated often.  It sounds like “Ok, I’ll do it, and I’ll even smile, but you can’t make me like it.”   Sounds like a toddler after being told to eat their peas.

                      I think the answer is constant communication. And I’m sorry to say, in this situation It befalls the wife to make sure her efforts are understood, because as Dennis said, we men are animals….and we can’t read your mind.

                      My DW has started making the effort to let me know she enjoys my enjoyment and wants to be part of that. It has made a good thing better and given me support and encouragement. And yes, it shows her love for me like nothing else can.

                      On the floor Answered on July 15, 2020.

                      I’m not sure I agree fully with “it befalls the wife”… maybe the husband needs to believe his wife is a good-willed wife, rather than seeing the worst in her unless she communicates otherwise.

                      And I don’t agree with “animal” reference whether it is from Dennis or you. 🙂 Isn’t that some of the wrong thinking this whole Christian sex blogging world is trying to change?

                      on July 15, 2020.

                      It befalls both spouses to openly communicate and not rely on mind-reading to share their feelings and desires, as well as their intentions at times. So in this case, it does depend on the wife to help insure she is “heard”. The husband’s responsibility to communicate is no less important, is often on different things. Choosing to believe the best in another does not remove that responsibility from them.

                      …and we are BOTH animals really. I think sometimes it gets lost that God created both male and female, and when He was done, He declared “It is VERY good.” The design is not what needs changed. Rather it is sin’s impact on the design that needs addressed. I believe what Prager was trying to bring out is it is best to work within the design and not against it.

                      on July 16, 2020.
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                        I liked the article.  I think it is a good read for women.  He probably overgeneralizes, though.   There is some individual variability among men.  Also, ‘know she loves him’ is probably not specific enough.  He might know she loves him intellectually, but many of us experience the feeling of loving connection with our wives most strongly through sex.  In my mind I might think my wife loves me, but if she denies sex to me regularly, I don’t feel it.  If she freely gives her body, I feel it.

                        Hammock Answered on July 14, 2020.

                        I agree – “know” can infer cognition, and the cognizant and the emotional do not always agree.  However, they are, as you indicated, strongly related. And almost always, a thought precedes an act. We know this intuitively within ourselves so we intuitively receive it the same way. If someone does something, we easily attach a feeling behind it – it many not be the fully correct one, but  it’s often pretty darn close. The same is with inaction. Not doing something can communicate as much as doing something.

                        on July 17, 2020.
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