Men – What did you think of the women’s responses?

    Curious to hear what the men thought of the responses in the recent thread: “Ladies, which part do you want treasured?”

     

    Overall, it seems that most ladies didn’t necessarily want a particular part to be treasured, but wanted ALL of their being to be loved and appreciated.

     

    Husbands, does this differ from what you had expected? What did you think as you read the responses from the ladies? I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts, if you are willing to share – thanks.

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    17 Answer(s)

      It’s exactly as I expected. Woman are much more critical of their body image and costly see advertising that says get this and you’ll look younger…be more attractive….be more confident, etc. it’s a constant barrage of ads and “messages” about one’s looks and appeal to you need this to measure up and God designed women who long for emotional connection.

      Guys, at some point, don’t think about it, don’t care or accept that we’ll never measure up to Brad Pitt or be an Adonis. On the other hand, as a general rule, we do care about our “performance” and lover’s satisfaction in the bedroom so from viagra to goat weed, we want to maintain our virility because it is a sense of pride and masculinity. That’s it’s primary function whereas breasts and a vagina are dual functioning  endowments.

      just my quick thoughts.

      Under the stars Answered on May 1, 2020.
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        Given the audience we have here, not unexpected. If you were to take a poll of general population, I think the results would be very different. The young particularly. The beauty industry does not exist without reason. Same for plastic surgeons. Females are the vast majority clientele of both. Both are about accentuating parts. One could debate the reasons behind the desire to make “improvements”, whether it is internal or external motivations.

        Blanket on a secluded beach! Answered on May 1, 2020.
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          (Thank you for raising these questions!)

          What I expected, but not what I as the OP had hoped for. LOL! Oh, the fun we have here 😀 May the fun continue!

          I anticipated the likelihood that answers like those posted would come. So, in an attempt to make my thread somewhat parallel to the other, and also to afford the opportunity of comparing the views of men with those of women, I intentionally framed the post and positioned the questions as I did.

          It seems I accurately figured women would be hesitant to say how they feel about their parts. And that they would want to be referred to as whole beings, be loved for who they are, and not as a bunch of parts, or be objectified, not forget that they have brains too, etc. (I said, “I get that.”) However.

          Contrary to what some assumed, it was not about how much you like your parts (That too is a very important topic). Or how good they look. Or how youngish they still are. Or how much or how little they have changed. It was about which lady parts are treasured highly and desired to have loved and appreciated.

          So, I knew that unless “auto-pilot” would be disengaged and unless us base men were humored ( 😉 ), my questions would disintegrate. We see what happened. (Maybe this is why I’ve only posted 8 questions. Lol!)

          While it didn’t generate the responses that were hoped for, it did confirm an eternally shocking hypothesis: women are not the same as men. In addition, while women can do most things as well or better than men (I really mean that), we shouldn’t expect them to answer as men (My bad).

          The fact that a DW started this thread and wanted to know men’s thoughts is cause for some consolation and considerable delight! Thank you again!

          As a psychologist, I have lots to ponder. Aren’t some of the DW’s answers an indirect way of revealing that deep down they desire their parts to be treasured highly, loved and appreciated? Maybe we will never know. 😉

          😀

           

          Under the stars Answered on May 1, 2020.

          i think they were truthfully answered. I don’t really desire any of my “parts” to be deeply desired and highly appreciated. As a woman i desire to be beautiful and would like all my parts to be that way, however no one has all parts perfect and then factor in aging…

          Although i love it when my husband says my “lady” part is nice looking (because i do not see it that way) i want him to see ME as beautiful (as a woman which entails ALL my parts) and that is why i hate it when men say i am “hot” instead of beautiful.

          on May 1, 2020.
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            I really want to see more discussion on this, so at the risk of starting a flame war and losing respect from the people of TMB, I’m going to say that I don’t buy it. Please note that this does not mean I think any individual woman at TMB lied. Maybe it’s as simple as LBD said and that the demographics here (both age and personality) don’t match the rest of the world, or maybe it’s the “part” aspect and not just their physicality in general, I don’t know. But my thoughts are that numbers don’t lie:

            • The worldwide beauty industry is a $532B market (per yr, 2017 numbers). 20% of that is the US, for $106B. That’s an enormous sum of money. In 2017, there were about $166M women in the US (all ages). That’s about $639 per female per year, including infants. Apparently, my number there was a huge underestimate, as this article says the average woman spends ~$2000/yr on cosmetic products/operations!
            • In an extreme contrast, the ED market globally in 2017 was $4.2B. That’s less than 1% of the “beauty” market!

            See how those numbers compare to other big areas (2018 numbers, but close enough): https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/prS3hI2_0kSn9prRqulJ6A–~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA–/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/quartz.com/43ddc97288cd79ce16d47105e501c8a5

            That indicates the US beauty market is over 7x bigger than the NFL (American Football) and over 14x bigger than the NBA (Basketball). It’s also ~7x bigger than mid-range estimates of the porn industry!

            Yes, I know some beauty products are purchased by men. Yes, I know some hygiene products are lumped in with beauty products. But that’s still an enormous amount of money.

            I’ve spent a lot of time in academics, and particularly on college campuses. The time, money, and effort going into female “beauty” there is mind boggling. A quick search I just did found that a 2008 study by Clairol indicated 75% of women dye their hair. The article I linked to above said 1/3 women refuse to leave the house without makeup, 6/10 won’t go to work without it, and even 1/10 won’t let their husband see them without it. We also know from previous threads that hair coloring and makeup are used by at least some of the women here at TMB.

            So what does all this mean? Does it mean TMB’s responders aren’t representative of the US aggregate? Are the responses skewed by age? Was the question by OWM not phrased in a good way (“part” vs. physical beauty in general)? Is my interpretation of the numbers screwy? Is the adage that women work on their appearance to impress other women (as opposed to their mate) actually true? Are they looking for affirmation of the physical from everyone but their DH’s?

            I’ll be straight-up honest here: to my knowledge, I have only seen Zelda wear makeup once in my entire life, which was just a small amount at our wedding. She doesn’t wear it, and neither of us use “product” of any kind. It’s a bizarre concept to me for sure, and I’m trying to understand it. Also, please know that this is not a personal attack on anyone who responded in the other thread–I have tremendous respect for many of the women here at TMB and hope that you know that!

            -Scott

            Under the stars Answered on May 1, 2020.

            The beauty industry also inculdes hair ans nails. A lot if women go to the salon once a month to help them feel beautiful. Does that mean we want to have our hair and nails treasured? No. It means that a man can wslk in and get a $10 hair cut and still be a lawyer. If a woman gets her hait couloured and cut, it often starts at $100.

            on May 1, 2020.

            “What part do you want treasured” =/= “Do you want to be considered physically beautiful” They are two different questions.

            Having said that, I don’t wear makeup (ever) so perhaps I’m the wrong person to ask.

            on May 1, 2020.
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              @ Scott, what does that have to do w/the question about which PART do you want treasured (or treasure) and it seemed to me it was trying to dig out of women’s responses SEXUAL parts like men do. Well surprise, surprise, we are not men. We are not trying to be “above” men in our responses, we just do not look at our parts like men do.

              I think all in all women greatly desire to be beautiful and this is where most of it comes from (physical enhancement) and most of it is culture driven (although i do believe God put a desire in women to want to be beautiful) as..as you can see, the current culture is now degenerating into a really warped sense of beauty probably driven by the selfie culture–plastic surgery by young women, overly enhanced features such as lips, hair extensions, fillers, huge breasts and now butt fillers of all things.

              I was honest in my answers and didn’t care if i came across as “shallow” in my answer about my face but in essence it is far more about my beauty to me, then it is about my sexuality, even in regard to what my husband thinks about me.  I want a man to look at the whole of me and think beauty and not what a nice @ss or rack to be very crass about it.

              Blanket on a secluded beach! Answered on May 1, 2020.

              @SongOfAngels

              That is a great way of explaining things. The culture often pushes a completely sexual version of beauty for women. The fact is that beauty is comprised of many facets including personality, poise, quirks, character, and of course the physical body.  Don’t get me started on the worldly idea that only a certain body type is attractive. That’s just claptrap.

              on May 2, 2020.
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                @SoA, 4AtS, and Selkie:

                To clarify, my long “answer” on this thread was in regard to several answers on that thread by women basically indicating that the physical doesn’t/shouldn’t matter. These include, but are not limited to, the following:

                “If we put so much stock, or store our treasures in parts that can, or WILL change, and usually not for the better, then we have an identity crisis when they change…”

                “I know that all my physical features will decline (or already have declined) with age and just living life.”

                “I want to be valued for who I am, not for my physical appearance. My physical appearance will change and my outward beauty will fade away. Who I am will remain.”

                “My body will break down over time, why would i choose to base my identity on something that will fail me.”

                 

                Maybe I read into some of the other responses, but they seemed to have that undertone implied too. And yet the “beauty industry” is more than twice the size of the porn, NFL, NBA, and ED industries combined.

                @4AtS, you said “A lot if women go to the salon once a month to help them feel beautiful” and said it costs $100 or more. That is exactly my point. Why are they wanting to “feel beautiful”? Who are they doing it for? For that kind of money, it is clearly important to them for some reason. In my world, that is a lot of money. If that were put into a Roth IRA and earned a conservative 5% interest over the course of 30 yr, that’s over $83000. For my DW and I, that’s significantly earlier retirement and would be huge. So why spend that kind of money if one believes what those quotes above imply?

                @Selkie, you make a good point that a “treasured part” is not the same as “do you want to be considered physically beautiful”. Perhaps I did distort the question some. Those quotes above, however, would seem to apply to both. Maybe this next quote from an answer on that thread may be useful to consider:

                “I think the general population of women just desire to be thought beautiful all around. Faces, figures, etc. You see it everywhere in clothing. However, deep down I believe they would rather be noticed for the non physical things. Brains, heart, their love, temperament, etc.” (emphasis mine)

                So instead of an individual part, they want all their parts to be awesome? Just a possibility, but it makes a lot of sense given the spending stats.

                @SoA: You said “what does that have to do w/the question about which PART do you want treasured (or treasure) and it seemed to me it was trying to dig out of women’s responses SEXUAL parts like men do. Well surprise, surprise, we are not men.” Please see above for the quotes that I was referencing, which kind of implied that the physicality in general was not important. I disagree that OWM’s question was trying to “dig out” a sexual part, and I thought your “face” response was fine. In fact, “face” makes a lot of sense given the stats on makeup. I didn’t think your answer was shallow at all. And it is no surprise that the ladies’ answers were not like men’s. What did surprise me was the numerous responses indicating physicality was not important. While I think those are great answers, they don’t seem to jive with the average woman (person) in our culture.

                 

                I realize my first “answer” on this thread can seem harsh. But honestly I see no way around it that women, as a group, spend a massive amount of time/energy/money on trying to improve their looks. From just the time/money/energy component, it would also seem to me that every part is more important to a woman than any part is to a man (that’s probably an exaggeration, but I hope you see the point).  Is it just not for their husband at all? Or not sexual at all (I have a hard time buying this one…I’ve been to college)? If not, then what is it for? For me, I work quite hard to be fit and attractive for my wife…much more so than I would if I was just by myself. I want her to have the best that I can offer.

                 

                -Scott

                Under the stars Answered on May 1, 2020.

                Scott, i put on makeup every single day because i love it, it makes me happy, i’ve done it since i was 12 and it wasn’t to attract boys, it was to make me feel beautiful.  i have been desired and chased after for my “parts” since i was 7.  And so have A. LOT. of other women in this world, according to statistics. So i do think all of this is spent trying to make us feel valuable and beautiful. At least when it comes to comparing men and women…..i think probably the average man would love to have their “part” admired for just what it is and could care less about their shoulders or arms or face receiving as much attention but i think that would absolutely not be true for the AVERAGE woman.

                Now this generation i could go on and on about. The distortion is outrageous. The advertising, movies, television, etc., aimed at convincing the average woman how inadequate they are is astounding and it’s far more aimed at women than the average man.  Of course we bite because God made women the fairer sex (at least that’s the consensus) and we desire that, really really desire that but to defer back to the original question…we do not value our sexual parts as much as the average man. We don’t proudly display our parts like a man would his penis. We’re just not men in that respect, nor obviously do we respond or think about sex in the same way.  Viva la difference.

                Also maybe the ladies on this forum don’t represent the average female but that DOES NOT INVALIDATE our responses. Take them, gentlemen, at face value and believe it.

                on May 2, 2020.

                Hi SoA: I appreciate your detailed and honest response. I very much suspect that the TMB women demographic is different from the norm.

                Your response, specifically the “We don’t proudly display our parts like a man would his penis” made me think…that’s not necessarily true for breasts. Many younger women, at least, show off their breasts a lot. If COVID-19 permits, one can go to a college campus in a few months (August) and easily see plenty of women showing pretty much all but the nipples. Go to a frat/sorority party or a wild bar and you can see the nipples too (so I hear…never actually did this myself). I suspect for the demographic that does this that they’re actually treasuring attention and validation more than their breasts themselves.

                Does that ring  bell with any women here? I guess I should tack on that many women don’t consider their breasts to be sexual, so maybe that’s a factor.

                -Scott

                on May 2, 2020.

                I believe you that you see immodestly dressed women on college campuses, but in Christian circles (or at least my circles) dressing modestly is an encouraged virtue. I’m guessing that most of the women posting here would not dress in such a way. I know that I do not.

                on May 2, 2020.

                Well to add validation to Scott’s point, i am absolutely stymied but how many actresses bare themselves on screen, it is astounding and so much more than men do. (and maybe that IS because men put so much more stock in their parts…) and yes since the 60’s actually, many more women have become freer with their sexuality. Which in essence devalues them, which is maybe why deep down inside they’re looking for validation by acting the way they are and so much effort spent on making themselves look better to the point of insanity.

                Of course we as women know the allure of our body parts to men but that DOES NOT MEAN we value them like men value their penises..i don’t think it’s even in the same ballpark.  Even with Christian men and women, you will find probably most men look at their penises far differently (like non Christian men) than the Christian woman even though she sees her body differently than the non Christian woman if that makes any sense at all.

                As far as beauty, i go all out…makeup (tastefully, not over done), dyeing my hair, exercise as best i can with my poor hip and knees and try to look my best (i don’t do my nails, they’re horrendous) and i invest in skin care but it isn’t because i’m trying to emphasis parts or to “treasure them” but because i have an intense desire to be valued and be beautiful (to myself mostly and yes to my husband) and also comes with that a knowledge that i had better put in at least equal effort on the inside. I do not know if that even registers with men and the way they think of their penises. (this is not a slam against men..again, we are different!)

                What about Esther and all her beauty treatments she had to undergo?

                on May 2, 2020.
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                  Not every woman needs to be beautiful to everyone, but every woman wants to be beautiful to someone. As @Selkie said, wanting to be beautiful to someone is not even close to being the same as treasuring a part or wanting a part treasured. I still stand firmly by my original answers. I understood exactly what OWM was asking, and I answered them as they were asked…and then added extra thoughts.

                  I know that my husband treasures a certain part, but I honestly don’t feel any better because of it nor secure in that fact.

                  You all want a part I want treasured… though it’s not really a part, it’s the closest you’ll get from me… lines and wrinkles. If my husband can treasure those, I know that I will be set for the years to come, and he’ll only have more and more to treasure! 😉 😊

                  Under the stars Answered on May 1, 2020.
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                    “Not every woman needs to be beautiful to everyone, but every woman wants to be beautiful to someone. As @Selkie said, wanting to be beautiful to someone is not even close to being the same as treasuring a part or wanting a part treasured.”

                    So who do women want to be beautiful to? And for those working so hard to change/improve/hold onto their physical beauty, are they not treasuring their whole physical appearance, or “all” their parts? Given how upset some women can be if someone “insults” part of their appearance, it sure seems that way to me.

                    “You all want a part I want treasured… though it’s not really a part, it’s the closest you’ll get from me… lines and wrinkles. If my husband can treasure those, I know that I will be set for the years to come, and he’ll only have more and more to treasure!”

                    Hear! Hear! to that!

                    -Scott

                    Under the stars Answered on May 1, 2020.

                    Oops, that was supposed to be a comment to @SC’s answer. Oh well.

                    -Scott

                    on May 1, 2020.
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                      Hmmmm… Some good thoughts coming out in these responses. Thanks to the men for sharing their thoughts – I really enjoy getting your insights/perspective.

                      Some thoughts of my own…

                      1. Yes, I think you would easily get a different response from wives if the question was worded differently. The question specifically asked us to name one part that we treasured and wanted loved and appreciated above all other parts – I think most women just don’t have one part that they feel like this about (I know I don’t, and I don’t think I’m alone). Hence the responses.
                      Alternatively, if you asked women something about whether they want to be perceived as being physically beautiful (or something similar) then you’d likely get a lot of wives saying yes. This is not the same as choosing one part above all others.

                      2. The original question would likely get different responses from a different group of women. The respondents were (I assume) all married Christians. Single and/or non-Christian ladies would likely differ in their responses. I have no idea of the age range on TMB, but a younger group may think differently, and give different responses, than an older group.

                      3. @Scott said: “I don’t buy it”. And one_woman_man said: “So, I knew that unless “auto-pilot” would be disengaged and unless us base men were humored ( 😉 ), my questions would disintegrate.”
                      I appreciate both these men sharing their thoughts, however I don’t understand why our responses are being looked upon with suspicion (I’m trying to say this in the nicest way possible over the internet, and hope this is taken in the friendly spirit in which I intended 😊).
                      I answered honestly – I do not have one part that I treasure, and I don’t have a part that I want loved and appreciated above all others. It seems the majority of the other ladies felt the same. We are perhaps not representative of the general population, but you can still accept our answers as valid for us, yes? 🙂
                      Remember that it was a very specific question that was being asked, and therefore it elicited a very specific response. As I suggested previously, asking a slightly different question will likely get a very different response.

                      4. The references to how much money the beauty industry generates don’t necessarily paint an accurate picture for all women. Yes, certainly women as a whole spend loads of money on making themselves more physically beautiful (although this doesn’t mean they are trying to get one part to be loved and appreciated above all others). Remember that this doesn’t mean all of us wives are spending money in this way. I can only offer myself as an example: I don’t wear makeup, don’t dye my hair, don’t go to the salon (except for a simple haircut once every two years or so), don’t get my nails done, and have a very simple wardrobe. I have nothing against others who do those things, but it’s just not for me. Yes, I’m aware that I’m weird 🙂.

                      5. There is one other thing that came to my mind, and I’m not sure if it makes a difference, but thought I’d mention it anyway… In my case, I have a husband who does not compliment me on my physical parts, either inside or outside the bedroom. Perhaps I may feel differently if he expressed a love for some specific part of my physical body? If he constantly expressed appreciation for, say, my rear end, then maybe I’d feel like I treasure that more than all my other features (because it gives him pleasure)? I don’t know, but am just wondering.

                      I’ll leave it at that for now. Thanks again to the husbands for sharing your thoughts. Very much appreciated!

                      Hammock Answered on May 2, 2020.
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                        @Scott, I understand why you compared the two questions but to me the meanings are not comparable.

                        I’ve had several guys (my husband and brothers included) tell me that they would rather have *a hand* cut off than their penis. I just do not feel that way about any part of my body and I think that most women are the same. You can believe that or not 😉.

                        For what it is worth, I’m in my early twenties and I felt this way before I was married too.

                        Double bed Answered on May 2, 2020.

                        Thanks for the info. For the record, I would fall into the camp of rather having a hand (at least my non-dominant hand) cut off instead of my penis. Maybe I should ask my wife which of those she’d prefer (for my body). I’d have to consider penis vs. my dominant hand. Now that we’re done having kids, there is less incentive to keep the penis (yes I know it’s not required for procreation…)

                        I don’t know if you want kids, but for women who do, it’d be an interesting question if they’d go with the hand cut off or lose their ability to have children. That’s probably super tangential though.

                        And it does seem to be the consensus that the “meanings of the two questions are not comparable”. However, several of the answers to the “treasured part” seemed to me to have a direct impact on beauty stuff…specifically that the ladies indicated their physical body didn’t matter. Clearly I’ve talked to my wife about this, but like you, she doesn’t wear makeup (nor does she do the salon, have her nails done etc)…thus, I ended up with no frame of reference.

                        -Scott

                        on May 2, 2020.

                        Now the question of losing a hand or being unable to have children is an interesting question. I think I would choose to keep my hand because adoption is an option, but that would actually make me pause and think. I do not have kids (yet) but both my husband and I want them.

                        I think the answers about physical beauty will vary significantly depending on who you talk to. Like your wife, it is not a major priority to me. I try to dress nice but that’s about as far as it goes (no makeup, beauty salons, or plastic surgery for me). Some women do enjoy those things and care a lot more than I do. That’s probably an individual decision.

                        on May 2, 2020.

                        See, i can understand having a hand cut off rather than the penis, LOL.  Sexual intimacy in TMB is so very important so i don’t think less of men when they say that.  I would also hope that i am believed that because i may be different than my sisters here on the forum in that i love makeup and hair, that doesn’t make me any more vain or shallow than the man choosing his penis over his hand! 🙂

                        on May 2, 2020.

                        @SoA
                        I don’t think that using and enjoying makeup makes you vain or shallow in itself. It’s only when you start putting your desire for physical beauty over other things that it becomes vanity.

                        on May 4, 2020.
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