Men – What did you think of the women’s responses?
Curious to hear what the men thought of the responses in the recent thread: “Ladies, which part do you want treasured?”
Overall, it seems that most ladies didn’t necessarily want a particular part to be treasured, but wanted ALL of their being to be loved and appreciated.
Husbands, does this differ from what you had expected? What did you think as you read the responses from the ladies? I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts, if you are willing to share – thanks.
It’s exactly as I expected. Woman are much more critical of their body image and costly see advertising that says get this and you’ll look younger…be more attractive….be more confident, etc. it’s a constant barrage of ads and “messages” about one’s looks and appeal to you need this to measure up and God designed women who long for emotional connection.
Guys, at some point, don’t think about it, don’t care or accept that we’ll never measure up to Brad Pitt or be an Adonis. On the other hand, as a general rule, we do care about our “performance” and lover’s satisfaction in the bedroom so from viagra to goat weed, we want to maintain our virility because it is a sense of pride and masculinity. That’s it’s primary function whereas breasts and a vagina are dual functioning endowments.
just my quick thoughts.
Given the audience we have here, not unexpected. If you were to take a poll of general population, I think the results would be very different. The young particularly. The beauty industry does not exist without reason. Same for plastic surgeons. Females are the vast majority clientele of both. Both are about accentuating parts. One could debate the reasons behind the desire to make “improvements”, whether it is internal or external motivations.
(Thank you for raising these questions!)
What I expected, but not what I as the OP had hoped for. LOL! Oh, the fun we have here 😀 May the fun continue!
I anticipated the likelihood that answers like those posted would come. So, in an attempt to make my thread somewhat parallel to the other, and also to afford the opportunity of comparing the views of men with those of women, I intentionally framed the post and positioned the questions as I did.
It seems I accurately figured women would be hesitant to say how they feel about their parts. And that they would want to be referred to as whole beings, be loved for who they are, and not as a bunch of parts, or be objectified, not forget that they have brains too, etc. (I said, “I get that.”) However.
Contrary to what some assumed, it was not about how much you like your parts (That too is a very important topic). Or how good they look. Or how youngish they still are. Or how much or how little they have changed. It was about which lady parts are treasured highly and desired to have loved and appreciated.
So, I knew that unless “auto-pilot” would be disengaged and unless us base men were humored ( 😉 ), my questions would disintegrate. We see what happened. (Maybe this is why I’ve only posted 8 questions. Lol!)
While it didn’t generate the responses that were hoped for, it did confirm an eternally shocking hypothesis: women are not the same as men. In addition, while women can do most things as well or better than men (I really mean that), we shouldn’t expect them to answer as men (My bad).
The fact that a DW started this thread and wanted to know men’s thoughts is cause for some consolation and considerable delight! Thank you again!
As a psychologist, I have lots to ponder. Aren’t some of the DW’s answers an indirect way of revealing that deep down they desire their parts to be treasured highly, loved and appreciated? Maybe we will never know. 😉
I really want to see more discussion on this, so at the risk of starting a flame war and losing respect from the people of TMB, I’m going to say that I don’t buy it. Please note that this does not mean I think any individual woman at TMB lied. Maybe it’s as simple as LBD said and that the demographics here (both age and personality) don’t match the rest of the world, or maybe it’s the “part” aspect and not just their physicality in general, I don’t know. But my thoughts are that numbers don’t lie:
- The worldwide beauty industry is a $532B market (per yr, 2017 numbers). 20% of that is the US, for $106B. That’s an enormous sum of money. In 2017, there were about $166M women in the US (all ages). That’s about $639 per female per year, including infants. Apparently, my number there was a huge underestimate, as this article says the average woman spends ~$2000/yr on cosmetic products/operations!
- In an extreme contrast, the ED market globally in 2017 was $4.2B. That’s less than 1% of the “beauty” market!
See how those numbers compare to other big areas (2018 numbers, but close enough): https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/prS3hI2_0kSn9prRqulJ6A–~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA–/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/quartz.com/43ddc97288cd79ce16d47105e501c8a5
That indicates the US beauty market is over 7x bigger than the NFL (American Football) and over 14x bigger than the NBA (Basketball). It’s also ~7x bigger than mid-range estimates of the porn industry!
Yes, I know some beauty products are purchased by men. Yes, I know some hygiene products are lumped in with beauty products. But that’s still an enormous amount of money.
I’ve spent a lot of time in academics, and particularly on college campuses. The time, money, and effort going into female “beauty” there is mind boggling. A quick search I just did found that a 2008 study by Clairol indicated 75% of women dye their hair. The article I linked to above said 1/3 women refuse to leave the house without makeup, 6/10 won’t go to work without it, and even 1/10 won’t let their husband see them without it. We also know from previous threads that hair coloring and makeup are used by at least some of the women here at TMB.
So what does all this mean? Does it mean TMB’s responders aren’t representative of the US aggregate? Are the responses skewed by age? Was the question by OWM not phrased in a good way (“part” vs. physical beauty in general)? Is my interpretation of the numbers screwy? Is the adage that women work on their appearance to impress other women (as opposed to their mate) actually true? Are they looking for affirmation of the physical from everyone but their DH’s?
I’ll be straight-up honest here: to my knowledge, I have only seen Zelda wear makeup once in my entire life, which was just a small amount at our wedding. She doesn’t wear it, and neither of us use “product” of any kind. It’s a bizarre concept to me for sure, and I’m trying to understand it. Also, please know that this is not a personal attack on anyone who responded in the other thread–I have tremendous respect for many of the women here at TMB and hope that you know that!
@ Scott, what does that have to do w/the question about which PART do you want treasured (or treasure) and it seemed to me it was trying to dig out of women’s responses SEXUAL parts like men do. Well surprise, surprise, we are not men. We are not trying to be “above” men in our responses, we just do not look at our parts like men do.
I think all in all women greatly desire to be beautiful and this is where most of it comes from (physical enhancement) and most of it is culture driven (although i do believe God put a desire in women to want to be beautiful) as..as you can see, the current culture is now degenerating into a really warped sense of beauty probably driven by the selfie culture–plastic surgery by young women, overly enhanced features such as lips, hair extensions, fillers, huge breasts and now butt fillers of all things.
I was honest in my answers and didn’t care if i came across as “shallow” in my answer about my face but in essence it is far more about my beauty to me, then it is about my sexuality, even in regard to what my husband thinks about me. I want a man to look at the whole of me and think beauty and not what a nice @ss or rack to be very crass about it.
@SoA, 4AtS, and Selkie:
To clarify, my long “answer” on this thread was in regard to several answers on that thread by women basically indicating that the physical doesn’t/shouldn’t matter. These include, but are not limited to, the following:
“If we put so much stock, or store our treasures in parts that can, or WILL change, and usually not for the better, then we have an identity crisis when they change…”
“I know that all my physical features will decline (or already have declined) with age and just living life.”
“I want to be valued for who I am, not for my physical appearance. My physical appearance will change and my outward beauty will fade away. Who I am will remain.”
“My body will break down over time, why would i choose to base my identity on something that will fail me.”
Maybe I read into some of the other responses, but they seemed to have that undertone implied too. And yet the “beauty industry” is more than twice the size of the porn, NFL, NBA, and ED industries combined.
@4AtS, you said “A lot if women go to the salon once a month to help them feel beautiful” and said it costs $100 or more. That is exactly my point. Why are they wanting to “feel beautiful”? Who are they doing it for? For that kind of money, it is clearly important to them for some reason. In my world, that is a lot of money. If that were put into a Roth IRA and earned a conservative 5% interest over the course of 30 yr, that’s over $83000. For my DW and I, that’s significantly earlier retirement and would be huge. So why spend that kind of money if one believes what those quotes above imply?
@Selkie, you make a good point that a “treasured part” is not the same as “do you want to be considered physically beautiful”. Perhaps I did distort the question some. Those quotes above, however, would seem to apply to both. Maybe this next quote from an answer on that thread may be useful to consider:
“I think the general population of women just desire to be thought beautiful all around. Faces, figures, etc. You see it everywhere in clothing. However, deep down I believe they would rather be noticed for the non physical things. Brains, heart, their love, temperament, etc.” (emphasis mine)
So instead of an individual part, they want all their parts to be awesome? Just a possibility, but it makes a lot of sense given the spending stats.
@SoA: You said “what does that have to do w/the question about which PART do you want treasured (or treasure) and it seemed to me it was trying to dig out of women’s responses SEXUAL parts like men do. Well surprise, surprise, we are not men.” Please see above for the quotes that I was referencing, which kind of implied that the physicality in general was not important. I disagree that OWM’s question was trying to “dig out” a sexual part, and I thought your “face” response was fine. In fact, “face” makes a lot of sense given the stats on makeup. I didn’t think your answer was shallow at all. And it is no surprise that the ladies’ answers were not like men’s. What did surprise me was the numerous responses indicating physicality was not important. While I think those are great answers, they don’t seem to jive with the average woman (person) in our culture.
I realize my first “answer” on this thread can seem harsh. But honestly I see no way around it that women, as a group, spend a massive amount of time/energy/money on trying to improve their looks. From just the time/money/energy component, it would also seem to me that every part is more important to a woman than any part is to a man (that’s probably an exaggeration, but I hope you see the point). Is it just not for their husband at all? Or not sexual at all (I have a hard time buying this one…I’ve been to college)? If not, then what is it for? For me, I work quite hard to be fit and attractive for my wife…much more so than I would if I was just by myself. I want her to have the best that I can offer.
Not every woman needs to be beautiful to everyone, but every woman wants to be beautiful to someone. As @Selkie said, wanting to be beautiful to someone is not even close to being the same as treasuring a part or wanting a part treasured. I still stand firmly by my original answers. I understood exactly what OWM was asking, and I answered them as they were asked…and then added extra thoughts.
I know that my husband treasures a certain part, but I honestly don’t feel any better because of it nor secure in that fact.
You all want a part I want treasured… though it’s not really a part, it’s the closest you’ll get from me… lines and wrinkles. If my husband can treasure those, I know that I will be set for the years to come, and he’ll only have more and more to treasure! 😉 😊
“Not every woman needs to be beautiful to everyone, but every woman wants to be beautiful to someone. As @Selkie said, wanting to be beautiful to someone is not even close to being the same as treasuring a part or wanting a part treasured.”
So who do women want to be beautiful to? And for those working so hard to change/improve/hold onto their physical beauty, are they not treasuring their whole physical appearance, or “all” their parts? Given how upset some women can be if someone “insults” part of their appearance, it sure seems that way to me.
“You all want a part I want treasured… though it’s not really a part, it’s the closest you’ll get from me… lines and wrinkles. If my husband can treasure those, I know that I will be set for the years to come, and he’ll only have more and more to treasure!”
Hear! Hear! to that!
Hmmmm… Some good thoughts coming out in these responses. Thanks to the men for sharing their thoughts – I really enjoy getting your insights/perspective.
Some thoughts of my own…
1. Yes, I think you would easily get a different response from wives if the question was worded differently. The question specifically asked us to name one part that we treasured and wanted loved and appreciated above all other parts – I think most women just don’t have one part that they feel like this about (I know I don’t, and I don’t think I’m alone). Hence the responses.
Alternatively, if you asked women something about whether they want to be perceived as being physically beautiful (or something similar) then you’d likely get a lot of wives saying yes. This is not the same as choosing one part above all others.
2. The original question would likely get different responses from a different group of women. The respondents were (I assume) all married Christians. Single and/or non-Christian ladies would likely differ in their responses. I have no idea of the age range on TMB, but a younger group may think differently, and give different responses, than an older group.
3. @Scott said: “I don’t buy it”. And one_woman_man said: “So, I knew that unless “auto-pilot” would be disengaged and unless us base men were humored ( 😉 ), my questions would disintegrate.”
I appreciate both these men sharing their thoughts, however I don’t understand why our responses are being looked upon with suspicion (I’m trying to say this in the nicest way possible over the internet, and hope this is taken in the friendly spirit in which I intended 😊).
I answered honestly – I do not have one part that I treasure, and I don’t have a part that I want loved and appreciated above all others. It seems the majority of the other ladies felt the same. We are perhaps not representative of the general population, but you can still accept our answers as valid for us, yes? 🙂
Remember that it was a very specific question that was being asked, and therefore it elicited a very specific response. As I suggested previously, asking a slightly different question will likely get a very different response.
4. The references to how much money the beauty industry generates don’t necessarily paint an accurate picture for all women. Yes, certainly women as a whole spend loads of money on making themselves more physically beautiful (although this doesn’t mean they are trying to get one part to be loved and appreciated above all others). Remember that this doesn’t mean all of us wives are spending money in this way. I can only offer myself as an example: I don’t wear makeup, don’t dye my hair, don’t go to the salon (except for a simple haircut once every two years or so), don’t get my nails done, and have a very simple wardrobe. I have nothing against others who do those things, but it’s just not for me. Yes, I’m aware that I’m weird 🙂.
5. There is one other thing that came to my mind, and I’m not sure if it makes a difference, but thought I’d mention it anyway… In my case, I have a husband who does not compliment me on my physical parts, either inside or outside the bedroom. Perhaps I may feel differently if he expressed a love for some specific part of my physical body? If he constantly expressed appreciation for, say, my rear end, then maybe I’d feel like I treasure that more than all my other features (because it gives him pleasure)? I don’t know, but am just wondering.
I’ll leave it at that for now. Thanks again to the husbands for sharing your thoughts. Very much appreciated!
@Scott, I understand why you compared the two questions but to me the meanings are not comparable.
I’ve had several guys (my husband and brothers included) tell me that they would rather have *a hand* cut off than their penis. I just do not feel that way about any part of my body and I think that most women are the same. You can believe that or not 😉.
For what it is worth, I’m in my early twenties and I felt this way before I was married too.