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Initiating sex without kissing

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Andrew
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by Andrew »

Link+Zelda wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:23 pm We definitely have experience in this area, and honestly still encounter it to a smaller degree. After the birth of our youngest/final child, Zelda was completely touched out and didn't want any sort of contact, including kissing. We actually joked about it at times, saying that the only place she wanted to be touched was her vagina.

At its worst, that's pretty much what it was--no touching until I penetrated her. It's gotten better now, but she's still not nearly as into kissing/caressing as she used to me. She says it's not how she wants to be touched. I respond that I'm just doing what she trained me to do several years ago. She acknowledges and agrees, but says it's different now. Once the penetration started and we got going, the other touching was allowed.

Things that might help:
  • Have her mentally dump everything in her mind/on her plate to you before starting.
  • Do some sort of sexy discussion or game as a warmup. You can find lots of options online.
  • Get sexy music and/or lighting going in the background.
  • The vibrator can definitely be useful. Probably a medium setting or pattern. My wife likes the "wave" pattern on our vibe for this.
My wife is certainly a "want to want to" type. And she really enjoys some solid PIV once we start. Sometimes it takes a few minutes of combined penetration and vibe to get her going. That's responsive desire for you. Given that you (and presumably your wife) already know about responsive desire, you're way ahead of the curve.
Thank you thank you thank you, this is the best advice yet! Contributing factors are that I'm a very touchy person and I have to focus all day on not touching her unnecessarily. But her rejection of my touch, even when it's warranted, feels pretty devastating to me.

You also mentioned her mentally putting aside her concerns. I can't help but laugh, because there is no way she'll be able to do that, and I'm sure that's a big part of her problem here. I've tried taking over the majority of the house maintenance and meals, and the last hour of the day is basically me waiting hand and foot on her with (healthy) snacks, a glass of wine, some chocolate, etc. But she is naturally an anxious person and her job is particularly stressful right now. She does her best, but I think her anxiety is part of what keeps her libido low. My wife on vacation is a totally different story 🚨.

I could try music. Sometimes we will watch a show, and part of the temptation for me is to watch something scandalous (nothing too bad, just some dumb teen drama or The Bachelor) to put her in the mood. This has worked before, but it does make me feel a little icky.

She isn't a music person (trust me, she is really great, but I know I'm mostly just highlighting her flaws here!) but she does have a few songs that she will turn on if she's feeling randy. I think they're hokey, but I'll gladly put up with them if they work! We've had sex to music before, so maybe I'll initiate with the music sometime.

Sexy talk, as mentioned in another post of mine, is likely not to work, but I can give it a try. I'll lead with the vibrator sometime.

Considering we eat meals in bed (I know, we're animals) I could maybe try to incorporate some food play. Thinking through it, I think she might actually engage in some playful "whoops, I got honey on my chest, would you lick it off please?"
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SeekingChange
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by SeekingChange »

Andrew wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:05 pm I mentioned my wife is sensitive to smell, but she's really just sensitive to all stimulation. I've tried nuzzling and gentle touching and all of that, but it's all to tickly, too hot or she just doesn't want to be touched.
This. Is. Me. So my husband is probably "out of luck" too. I don't really care for foreplay, other than a back rub. This sounds weird, but what's often helpful for me is us watching a show or two of a comedic sitcom. That helps me transition and clear my mind. It does not focus my mind on sex, nor does it cause arousal, but it removes the "blocks" I might have caused by a busy mind from the day or to-do lists. Afterwards, I very unromantically give some kind of straightforward message that says "let's do this". Maybe it's because I am extra sensitive to things, that it aids in my sensitivity to certain pleasures of first penetration and being able to be aroused quickly.
I can see her sitting there just trying to figure out how to make it happen. I know it's not my problem, but it makes me feel horrible that there's nothing I can do to turn her on.
Do you two know of responsive desire? This comment would suggest she does experience it..."Once she gets going, she gets really into it, but in the beginning, it's like she only wants to want to want to have sex and has to "push through" to get to the fun part." (I see @Link mentions this too.) Once one realizes this is at play, it can help to push us past that "I want to want to....but I don't want to." hurdle we often face.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
Andrew
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by Andrew »

SeekingChange wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:57 pm
Andrew wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:05 pm I mentioned my wife is sensitive to smell, but she's really just sensitive to all stimulation. I've tried nuzzling and gentle touching and all of that, but it's all to tickly, too hot or she just doesn't want to be touched.
This. Is. Me. So my husband is probably "out of luck" too. I don't really care for foreplay, other than a back rub. This sounds weird, but what's often helpful for me is us watching a show or two of a comedic sitcom. That helps me transition and clear my mind. It does not focus my mind on sex, nor does it cause arousal, but it removes the "blocks" I might have caused by a busy mind from the day or to-do lists. Afterwards, I very unromantically give some kind of straightforward message that says "let's do this". Maybe it's because I am extra sensitive to things, that it aids in my sensitivity to certain pleasures of first penetration and being able to be aroused quickly.
I can see her sitting there just trying to figure out how to make it happen. I know it's not my problem, but it makes me feel horrible that there's nothing I can do to turn her on.
Do you two know of responsive desire? This comment would suggest she does experience it..."Once she gets going, she gets really into it, but in the beginning, it's like she only wants to want to want to have sex and has to "push through" to get to the fun part." (I see @Link mentions this too.) Once one realizes this is at play, it can help to push us past that "I want to want to....but I don't want to." hurdle we often face.
Yes, this is us to a T! We do sit in bed and watch a show. And she does at some point pause the show, get mentally psyched up and look at me like "okay, let's get started."

We do both know about responsive desire, which we're certain she has. I was just looking for ways to initiate that she might enjoy more.

Sounds like you understand that most things just aren't going to work and you've got to get over the hurdle. I just wanted to see if there was something small that might light the flame. Even if we're "out of luck," at least all four of us understand that that's just something we need to do to get going.

I'll try some of the suggestions here still. Here's to hoping!
CTim
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by CTim »

Don't have a whole lot to add, but you are not alone. Sounds like you have a very busy but good-willed wife who is responsive only and doesn't like much foreplay. That's us!

Couple things that occasionally work for me are foot rubs - she's on her feet all day dealing with the household and home school, and being very direct about wanting sex and taking complete control once we start. I have a hard time with this as of course I want her to want it and have spent most of our marriage trying to gently see if she's interested before making a move....stinking responsive desire. Grrrr :hb: This has been a constant mental struggle for me and I know I need to get over it, but it's tough.

One other thing that I think works for us is straightforward sensual erotic talk towards her. Again, another tough one for me, as I'd love for her to be this way towards me, but have a hard time taking the lead here. It just feels silly until we are in the middle of a great moment.
Andrew
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by Andrew »

Well, we had a talk last night.

Things were getting started and I could tell it was difficult. She could smell me and so kisses were off the table (I washed my face, brushed my teeth and had gum in, but sometimes she can still smell me) and after trying some things, she broke down and was crying a little bit. We talked through it and she basically said everything in the first post about being frustrated with her responsive desire and hypersensitivity to smell and touch.

But she added something else: she has had an injury that has had a long recovery time, and it makes her favorite positions impossible. She said it's hard to get excited knowing that cowgirl is off the table, and that her orgasms are so much better in that position. This was news to me: I knew it was her favorite position but she's multiorgasmic in every position we've tried. She said this was the first time she could pinpoint why sex had been harder for the last couple of years.

We talked through a number of ideas or possibilities that might be fun or make things easier. But she's mostly just grieving her body and the things she can't do right now.
David
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by David »

Just a thought, would spending less time in your bed help?
Eat your meals at the table and watch TV on the sofa, keeping the bed for sex and sleeping.

You mention anxiety. Has your wife sought help for this?
Andrew
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by Andrew »

David wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:38 am Just a thought, would spending less time in your bed help?
Eat your meals at the table and watch TV on the sofa, keeping the bed for sex and sleeping.

You mention anxiety. Has your wife sought help for this?
I think it would, but she is just not like that. She's always done everything in bed, and I'm used to it as well now too. Maybe I'll try a night with a meal at the table and no TV before bed.

Her anxiety levels I think are fairly "normal". I don't know she would want to go on meds for them, and I've heard a lot of anxiety meds can kill libido anyway.

Unless you have some other anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise! We have talked about her getting therapy for her hypersensitivity.
David
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Re: Initiating sex without kissing

Post by David »

Anxiety is difficult to know about without knowing your wife!
All medications have side effects in at least some people, and loss of libido certainly can be a side effect. However, medication isn't the only thing that can help with anxiety. Some kind of talking therapy, or maybe even talking to you about her day might be all she needs.
From your replies, it sounds like your wife isn't very willing to talk about things, something that is surely only going to increase her anxiety.
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