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Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

What is lust? What isn't? How can I guard myself...
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one_woman_man
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by one_woman_man »

Not sure what happened. I was nearing completion of my post and it totally disappeared as this site just shut down. (So this answer won't be nearly as good! lol!)

I differentiate between seeing and looking. Often we can't help what we see. But looking typically involves intent. Intent can be sinful or lead to lustful thoughts and outright sin. What we look at/for and why determine if it is good or wrong

We also notice many things. I notice things that are out of the ordinary - a very tall person. I also take note of things that are striking - jet black hair, platinum blond hair. I'm "interrupted" by things that are striking - what someone wears, how they wear it, or how little they wear, someone's face or eyes, etc. But at some point it is easy for our taking note to be taking a look and going down a sinful path.

It is common for us to have preferences. These personal favorites draw us toward such things  by means of our eyes, emotions, feelings, etc.  As we say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We easily/readily behold what we consider to be beautiful or attractive.  If we have ungodly preferences, that is wrong to begin with. But if they are neutral or clearly positive, us seeing such things and appreciating them can remain neutral. But it could go awry as well.

(Can't remember the other things I wrote :( )

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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by newwifenewlife »

I nearly always copy my response before posting....that or along the process of answering, just in case I swipe accidentally and change the page before replying. This way I don't lose my answer and the time spent.
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by Deleted User 1388 »

So many people have pointed out that these questions have been asked over and over.  I’m seeing similar stuff after clicking on links but I definitely was not part of the discussion and they aren’t entirely the same at all.  These questions, IMO, have huge relevance especially for those with children in high school and college.  I’m finally getting around to answering my own questions.  The answer I would give to committed Christians and to non Christians could not be more stark.  I would submit to you in the secular world, the reason females dress as they do is to attract males.  Another reason might be to gain attention which makes them feel wanted and loved.  What other reasons could there be?  It’s sad.  I’m around kids every day working in a high school.  These girls (and boys) are so much more than their clothes and everything is so superficial.  So little focus on personality.

To answer these same questions for Christ followers is a whole different ball game.  We have heard this for years in the church but it’s solid advice.  We need to teach our boys / men to look at the inward characteristics of a woman, her personality and most importantly, her relationship to God.  Likewise, we need to teach our girls / women to develop their value and worth as children of God, to develop their inner selves so that its not entirely tied to outward beauty.  Messages around us every day run counter to this thinking so it’s a daily mindset we need to incorporate in our lives.  The earlier we learn this the better.  I am not a theologian and I don’t know scripture like I wish I did but a verse that keeps popping up in my head is I Corinthians 3:16 and 17 (Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.”) If our bodies are the temple of God then we must do all that we can to not defile it.  So, who is to blame?  Not sure. I think men need to learn to look inward, get to know the whole personhood of a woman while I think women can do their part to not flaunt their bodies unless of course it is in the marriage bed with their husbands.  Not easy. In summary, I think lot of you have touched on this:  it takes both brothers and sisters in Christ who are made differently working together and doing their part, respecting one another in the body of Christ to ultimately bring honor and glory to Jesus Christ.  At that point, we are truly the body of Christ.
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by Brynna »

Each person carries their own sin. I remember hearing years ago that 'it's the second look that hurts'. You can't help the first look, but you can help the second one.

If a woman or girl dresses provocatively, that's on her. If a man looks on her and lusts, that's on him. But, I don't believe he can look at her and say that it was her fault. Neither do I believe that women can dress exactly how they want and say they have no responsibility. We all have responsibility towards each other.

Yes, I used to believe that all men wanted was to get a good look. But, if a guy is bent in that direction, it doesn't matter how she dresses. I felt undressed by a certain man years ago. And I had certain very modest clothes that I wore around him, because we all knew what he was like. But it made no difference. I had a friend with an obvious special needs daughter. But, she would have strangers step up to her and tell her that her daughter had a very sexy air about her. So, what was that? Some of it is in the attitude, but the special needs child must have been born with it. So, can we really decide all this? Surely, we as Christians have enough Spirit led guidance that we will know what is our part.
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by SeekingChange »

@GG said, "I would submit to you in the secular world, the reason females dress as they do is to attract males.  Another reason might be to gain attention which makes them feel wanted and loved.  What other reasons could there be?"

What reason I see is insecurity, whether in or out of the church.  When I see women dressed a certain way, I see an insecure woman/girl who is looking for worth and validation in other things and from others, and some of that may be from the attention that she gets from others.  Even if the clothes would fall under "modest", I know a woman who dresses to a certain "up scale" standard because she wants to appear to have worth from the name brand on her clothes or the types of accessories she wears.... she just transferred her insecurity from revealing to flashy....but one is a little more "acceptable" in the church, but the brokenness is the same.

How should Christians act?  They should love the person.  First, we can't expect for someone of the world to behave like someone who is righteous.  For those who are, or claim to be, brothers/sisters, that's when, in our love and through a relationship we have built with them, we can come along side them and start teaching them and being a model and mentor for them.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by Deleted User 1388 »

Fair enough
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by Oldbear »

If every man that notices a woman and thinks, “Hmmm, she’s quite attractive!” ought be shamed, then shame on all of us men. Who among us guys can say that it hasn’t happened to me? No one can cast the first or last stone. Let’s not cast stones.

Temptation is common to all men (and women), but God provides a way of escape. Looking to shame or blame is a futile and quite frankly unbiblical and a fruitless thing to do. Accept the fact that we will be tempted. In our temptation do not sin, as Jesus taught by example.

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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by SeekingChange »

Not just the men... who of women hasn't thought, "Hmmm, he's attractive!"  OR "Hmmm, she's attractive."  Do we now have an unbeknownst SSA and lust we are dealing with?
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by Deleted User 1388 »

What is SSA? I know it is not social security administration.
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SeekingChange
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Re: Shaming men who look. Who is to blame?

Post by SeekingChange »

Same Sex Attraction
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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