Special Groups

We have sections you must join to use. You can see the full list here. Most you can join with a click. The medical and pastoral groups require approval.
Note, some groups were not accepting new members properly. That is fixed.

Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

What limits should we set before marriage?
Forum rules
Post in this section can be seen by guests and search engines.
LBD
On the floor
On the floor
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:00 am
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by LBD »

Romans 14:10  "Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; ..."

The principle related in Romans 14 is not just about eating or drinking, or special day observances. It is a principle of grace and understanding, and ultimately growing in faith. Can it apply here? I think so. If one man knows he may struggle in this area, and he chooses to avoid certain contact, why judge him harshly? Or if another sees he has no struggle in this area and chooses to act freely, why judge him "more righteous?" Or worse yet, judge him LESS righteous because of your own flaws and sense of self-righteousness that pushes you toward avoidance of said practice (which is what Paul was addressing directly.)

Ultimately, this physical contact issue is a question every man (or woman) must answer for themselves and no one else. Nowhere does scripture say Christians "thus always give full frontal hugs" or "thou must avoid full frontal hugs."  However, it does say "greet one another with a holy kiss".... (probably means no tongue :lol: )

Col 3:17  "And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  (interesting that the immediate following verses are "wives submit to your husbands, husbands love your wives")

It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell
::dog
User avatar
newwifenewlife
Under the stars
Under the stars
Posts: 2311
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:00 am
Location: Place colder than I want to be

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by newwifenewlife »

Well said sir.

 
User avatar
SeekingChange
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4690
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:45 pm
Location: All I know is I'm not home yet

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by SeekingChange »

And yet, look how Paul spoke to believers, an example is 1 Corinthians 3, where he says he has to speak to them as "infants in Christ",  "as fleshly".   So when he is saying "don't cast judgement", he's not talking about calling things as he sees it and as the evidence proves, quite apparently.  We are to call others in the body of Christ up to the higher standard of Christ.    If a man is a luster, and can't trust himself with a woman, by all means, flee.... but I would hope every man in Christ will be growing and maturing, and the Spirit will become more evident that he is not acting as the same man 5, 10, 20, 50 years into his walk with Christ, as he was in his previous years.  We all should be moving away from "fleshly" to "spiritual".  And as we move to the spiritual, the more evident and aware we are of the Holy Spirit, and that Spirit guides us and warns us in each situation.... don't underestimate the truth and power of being led by the Spirit.  I get clear Holy Spirit discerning warnings when extra caution needs to be taken with someone, I know I am not the only one He does that with.

There are many men in the church, and I'm not saying that it's any of you here, I am challenging the "church culture", who would NOT have been the good samaritan, if it was a woman laying on the side of the road.... all because they would "righteously, justify" not taking a risk to their own reputation and their family's reputation (sounds a lot like pride),   If one is not willing to aid someone because of their gender, I think a serious heart check is needed.  If it doesn't apply to you, then I am not talking to you.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
User avatar
newwifenewlife
Under the stars
Under the stars
Posts: 2311
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:00 am
Location: Place colder than I want to be

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by newwifenewlife »

@ SC - "There are many men in the church, and I’m not saying that it’s any of you here, I am challenging the “church culture”, who would NOT have been the good samaritan, if it was a woman laying on the side of the road…. all because they would “righteously, justify” not taking a risk to their own reputation and their family’s reputation (sounds a lot like pride),   If one is not willing to aid someone because of their gender, I think a serious heart check is needed."

I'm not sure how this conversation got there, nor has that ever been my experience in life or ministry to do something as you suggest.  Would I help a stripper? Absolutely. Would it be wise for me to utilize and make every effort to do so with and/or through my wife as needed?  Yes. Why? Not because of lust, but out of love for my wife, to care for and guard my reputation as well as this woman's reputation.  Would I shun her? Absolutely not. Life and ministry is definitely messy when dealing with people 'cause no one is perfect. Matthew 10:6 says to be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves" and that means always thinking, being aware and getting close to people like Jesus did.
LBD
On the floor
On the floor
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:00 am
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by LBD »

so now we go from hugging to not helping someone wounded on the side of the road? where did that come from?  I don't think anyone as even close to suggested such, until now.

Would you not think maturing also means learning and understanding where one's weaknesses might be and acting accordingly?  Becoming a Christian does not apply some kind of "sin teflon" to you. In fact, it does just the opposite, it paints a big target on your back. Satan doesn't worry about the ones he already has, its the ones that he doesn't that he wants to turn.

What has not been discussed is the respect I owe the spouse of another woman. I don't mind if someone hugs my wife in some platonic fashion. Many do, though she is not a hug-seeker. But I also know that some husbands might be bothered by it. So I observe and act accordingly.  "I will not eat or drink if it causes a brother to stumble" says Paul. Or was he a spiritual babe as well?

1 Co 3 - out of context to this discussion. I'm sure you know that already - unless you are claiming to be "of the huggers."

 
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell
::dog
User avatar
SeekingChange
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4690
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:45 pm
Location: All I know is I'm not home yet

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by SeekingChange »

@NWNL, How I got to the good samaritan.... because the holy comfort/touch of hugs from men of God, with words of truth, could be the very thing a woman needs, who has a wounded little girl on the inside, that had a father who abandoned her, or neglected her, or who had been abused, etc,, that act may be what's needed to bring a message of hope and healing to her. It could be the very message that there is a loving Father in heaven, who sees her, loves her, and doesn't reflect her own earthy father.  She has a bloody and broken spirit lying on the side of a road, that God wants to use His body to help heal.   Maybe I see things this way because of our personal calling, but I still believe we are ALL called to reflect Christ, and that means we sometimes go where the "righteous" would never go and do what the "righteous" would never do.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
EB
Single
Single
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:00 am

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by EB »

@SC, I don’t think the woman needing a hug must receive it from a man whom she is not married to, and must necessarily be a lengthy frontal hug, don’t you? A side hug would do fine. Or from another woman would be great also, since the same Jesus who lives in a man lives in a woman also. I don’t think that prolonged frontal hugs are absolutely necessary to bring comfort to someone of the opposite sex, without which comfort can not be ministered. (As a side note, actually in bereavement situations where people are extra needy, what starts as comforting attention from the opposite sex actually ends up in bed - sad but true. I have seen it happen. Sex can actually touch an area in your life that other things can’t get to. I am sure that many here can attest to how much better/comforting/intimate sex was with your spouse in painful circumstances such as a loss.)
User avatar
SeekingChange
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4690
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:45 pm
Location: All I know is I'm not home yet

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by SeekingChange »

@EB, yes, I actually do believe there is a difference between a full embrace and a side hug. And therefore, yes, sometimes I do think it's needed. If we look at your questions in the first paragraph, "prolonged hugging" is not mentioned, and so it's not really been on my radar with most of my thoughts and comments.....and what's "prolonged" anyway?

I have a fellow at church, who often comes over to me to greet me, and even if I try to side hug him, he has a natural way to just pull me in fully and bear hug. There's no awkwardness about it and no inappropriateness about it, and often it's done right at the front door of our church, with his wife right there. Guess what, he hugs my husband the same way.

My husband and I had a good conversation on this tonight, we're still on the same page. Although he did share something I hadn't shared when speaking of him earlier. One reason he does a side hug is because he felt like some women are uncomfortable with hugs, and he really plays off of the feel and lead of the other, with the exception of those rare "red flag" cases.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
MoreBlessed
Queen bed
Queen bed
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:00 am

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by MoreBlessed »

We chose to avoid kissing before marriage due to it stirring up strong sexual feelings. We allowed goodnight hugs, trying to keep them short and in public areas. We were very grateful we waited and enjoyed the blessing of purity. Both of us struggled with purity before our first marriages and wanted to do it right this time. We also wanted to set an example for our kids who were watching.
EB
Single
Single
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:00 am

Re: Men: Frontal Hugs With Females

Post by EB »

WirelessRouter,

I disagree with a great portion of what you wrote and will attempt responding below:

>I have never in my entire life had a thought about a woman’s breasts when I gave her a hug. This is a thing?

Yes, if you are used to give hugs and feeling a woman's breasts you will not have a thought about it.   It's desensitizing, akin to someone watching R-rated movies but not caring about the nudity, foul language, or gore in them.  The more you do it, the less you feel the effects of it.

>A lot of this thread is so sad. Affection is a human need. Depriving people of that basic need by selectively sexualizing normal, healthy, inherently non-sexual ways to get and give it is a surefire way to create an especially difficult to manage sex drive, which is a recipe for disaster.

Nobody is being deprived.   My husband can side-hug a woman and be perfectly fine.  Understand?   Do you REALLY need to give a woman long, frontal hug to a woman you are not married to to show affection?

>It’s sad to me the church has so given itself to the pharisee mindset of putting rules on rules while ignoring Colossians 2:20-23 that we have discussions of whether or not we should give hugs because we’re afraid of them leading to sexual desires.

No one is putting rules on anyone.  The question was pertaining to an engaged couple who was holding each other in full frontal hugs for extended periods of time, and wondering if this would possibly lead the man into lust.  These are young adults who do want to please God and not fall into lust... not engaging in masturbation.  As it turned out, YES, the young man was struggling with these hugs!  And they have decided to migrate to the side-hugs instead.  I am so proud of them!

The Scripture mentioned, Col 2:20-23 was also taken out of context as Paul was addressing ASCETICISM where the body is seen as evil. This thread is about SELF-DISCIPLINE where the body is seen as good, however, its desires must be controlled and channeled properly.   No one is saying a woman's body is evil, or that sexual desires are evil.  However, self-control is taught in the NT, is it not?

>This is a patently ridiculous discussion to have. Everyone finds hugging their family members to be completely fine, yet if hugs lead to lust this would be a massive no-no! This is completely inconsistent. The difference between these is that we view incest with complete revulsion, but deep down – whether we admit it to ourselves or not – we still view non-family members of the opposite gender as potential sex partners.

How did we get into incest, from the original question?  I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

>Please don’t take that statement judgementally. I realized this as I was typing this comment, and single me is guilty as well, but hugs are not the problem. Having a wrong view of the opposite gender is, and no rule about the particular vector of approach for physical contact with one’s non-married romantic partner is going to create the righteous mindset to avoid lust.

Why do you assume the question stems from a wrong view of the opposite gender???  The question originates from a couple wanting to save themselves and all their positive sexual energy for each other after they get married -- no masturbating while single.  I get it, this runs against our culture and even against most church-culture in this country.  But I'm not surprised since 50% of all pastors are hooked on pornography and 75% of all single Christian males are as well.

Post Reply

Return to “Sexual Limits (Engaged)”