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The theology of 1 Cor 7

How does God fit into our sex lives?
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SeekingChange
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by SeekingChange »

@Dovegrey, do you think some of the issue (what you call a lack of empathy) is the impression of a lack of love? "We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."  (1 Jn 3:16)  That's what I keep coming back to today.  There seems to be a lack of willing to lay down ones life because there's so much concern at making sure "wives" stay in their place of  submission, so that a man can stay in his place of authority or "the head".... forgetting all the while, what Christ's demonstration of love truly is.  At least to me, it comes across that the husband is due that love from the wife, but a wife is not due it from her husband because he "is the authority", he "is the head", or maybe even because he "is the higher drive".  :/
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by sd595 »

SC- Do you think that a husband laying down his life (and be loving) means that scripture like (1 Cor 7 or headship) should be ignored or becomes ineffective/moot?
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by SeekingChange »

Simply, no.

As I have said over and over, it's about taking it all as a whole.  It's about being full of grace as one full of truth, as Jesus was.  It's about taking those instructions in the context of the whole gospel and new covenant.  If we live as we are called to as children of God. If we "love one another as [Jesus] has loved [us]", living as husband and/or wife will fall into its proper place, because there's no room for our "selves" (speaking of our sin and flesh, not our fearfully and wonderfully unique beings we are created to be.)  Where as you seem to say, or give the impression, instructions to husbands and wives overrule, or negate, what we are called to live, as Christians in general.  Or to use your words to Doug, with a twist, it seems your view of headship (the impression women/wives are lesser than)  "is completely irreconcilable to all of the scripture", specifically the message of the gospel and who we are in Christ, as "sons of God"....there is a very powerful reason we ALL, in Christ, are called "sons".

In other words, it seems like you are opposed to my stance that we are children of God first, then husbands and wives. The message I "hear" you say is, we are husbands and wives first, then we are children of God.

I believe and place who God says I am and the position I have in Christ, first, which is equally selected by God, saved by Christ's blood, sealed with the Holy Spirit, seated with Christ in the heavenly places, secure in God's household, and strengthened with power through His Spirit.  I am also called, gifted and given authority in Christ.  And then I allow that to cover me in who am and  what I am to do as a wife.  What I feel from your stance, is we are supposed to view ouselves as wives first, and that is to define who we are in Christ and how we are to act, in this life, because the other benefits, the wealth, treasure, and promises are only for the next life.

Taken from Andy Stanley, I believe the one, and maybe even only question every Christian needs to ask is, "What does love require of me?"  It's very simple, but highly demanding.   And if anyone else is as overwhelmed by that question as I am, spurred from the "new commandment" Jesus gives (Jn 13:34), it just constantly keeps us humble and makes us realize and know our need for Christ.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by SeekingChange »

@sd, I, and I am guessing others here, would love to hear the otherside of your story. It would be wonderful to hear your wife share in her own words, her view of living in this kind of marriage, with you.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

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She is not into this type of thing (posting), but I assure you that she is loved, knows it, and is doing very well.  I am so impressed by her and she is amazing!  Following God's model, our marriage has never been better.  I know I am blessed and I am grateful to my Lord and my wife for it.

I don't think we need to be this person first and that person last - that type of thinking in my opinion would cause conflicts.  I think we just need to be the all together person that God calls us to be.  Whether you are a husband or a wife, you should do all that the bible says a husband or wife should do, no sections excluded, no teaching invalidated.

You say I am being unloving or have the wrong tone by pointing out and teaching what scripture says, but we can't know the truth unless we study it.  For the sake of unity, let's just agree to disagree.
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by sd595 »

Does anyone else have thoughts about 1 Cor 7?  Why is it there?  What does it mean to you?  How has it shaped your marriage?
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

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What it means to US is that we both believe in rendering marital due to one another. What we also believe and practice according to scripture is grace. Many many things factor into the sexual union between husband and wife. Health issues, conflicts, undue hardships, etc...they are all dealt with an attitude of grace and mercy and love (thankfully), not with an explicit direction of headship and submission (which we both work out on our own--the mandate given explicitly by the Lord to each of us, not to demand that from each other, IOW i am given the directive to submit, not demand my husband fulfill his role).  What does 1 Cor 7 have to do w/headship and submission? It clearly says one to another. The NT is also profoundly grace-filled. Jesus had every right to stone the woman caught in adultery but he offered grace in addition to telling her to go and sin no more.

And also how is husbands treat your wife in an understanding way twisted around to point to headship? It is a mandate to the husband FOR the wife. We take everything in context, don't pull a scripture out of place.

I can read between the lines, sd, and it is clear you are not going to be swayed from your staunch headship role in EVERYTHING.  What are YOU trying to say about 1 Cor 7? It seems very clear to me you are erring on the side of the husband getting his conjugal rights (you qualify it with "loving") any and every time he wants and who cares about the LD spouse?  What is with this headship/submission thing with you? I don't think any Christian here has a problem with headship/submission as taught in scripture but you seem fixated on it and are taking it to another level, especially sexually it seems, to be quite blunt.

What about 1 Cor 13, the great love chapter? This is written to ALL believers and you state that 1 Cor 7 POSSIBLY might be the only scripture where the wife has SOME authority...well what about all other scriptures telling us how to behave? They don't apply specifically to the marriage union?  You and i can debate until the cows come home...you will have the last word and you believe what you believe and it is clear you are trying to sway others to your view.  Fine but expect some push back
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by sd595 »

A husband living with his wife in an understanding way is living with her the way the bible instructs.  Often this verse is used to try to eliminate headship by saying it isn't understanding for a wife to have to submit to her husband, but that is false.  I agree that the two don't really have anything to do with each other other than the way people try to use it.

I think 1 Cor 7 is THE teaching about sexual responsibility in marriage.  I think you are taking what I said earlier out of context or thinking it was something that it was not - I said I think it fits into headship because what it tells the wife to do, the husband can already ask for because his wife should submit to his desires anyway.  That was all I meant by that.

We can both present our views respectfully.  Yes, I'd like to others to consider what scripture says instead of dismissing it because they don't like it, it is hard, or think they know better.
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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by LuckyInLove »

Sd595, a good place to start is definitely asking  'why is it there?' What specific concerns was Paul addressing? What was going on in the church at Corinth during that time? I've found that context is the most important part of understanding scripture, especially letters.

1 Cor 7 is probably the most egalitarian chapter in the Bible. It makes you wonder exactly what was going on at the time. We can guess, but there are no real answers. Some say there were extremes in the church, between promiscuity and those who believed sex was always wrong, even among husbands and wives.

To add onto what SC is saying, if we are not children of God first and spouses in a secondary sense, what happen when we get to heaven and are no longer taken in marriage?

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Re: The theology of 1 Cor 7

Post by sd595 »

I agree about the context.  1 Cor 7 is very much oddly egalitarian for the Word [the scope being married sex].  My thought is that the issue of sex is such an important need for both husband and wife.  The OT has various scripture about a sex being a need for a wife as well.  I suspect highly that they were addressing some early acesetism, but whatever the reason, scripture lays out God's wishes about how a married couple should relate to each other sexually in crystal detail and I think we should be thankful for it.

The idea of let's do this first and let's do this second is basically saying let's do this first and let's forget about doing that.  As I said above, we should just do what is good, not splitting ourselves into multiple identities.  Does it make sense to ignore some of what scripture says?  We should be obedient to what the bible teaches here on earth and we will do what is good when we are in heaven when we are there.  I suspect that there will be order in heaven even if there is no marriage and I'll be under the authority of another believer.
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